WWDC 2023 - What to expect today?

celtic_elk

@AudioGus said:

And I don’t see what the tracking problem is. There are existing self-contained systems that track for immersive VR. >You don’t need to have external room sensors.

To compete with the high end VR you need more than just head tracking.

The Vision Pro has hand tracking. Anything else?

AudioGus

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

And I don’t see what the tracking problem is. There are existing self-contained systems that track for immersive VR. >You don’t need to have external room sensors.

To compete with the high end VR you need more than just head tracking.

The Vision Pro has hand tracking. Anything else?

Limbs and peripherals.

celtic_elk

@AudioGus said:

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

And I don’t see what the tracking problem is. There are existing self-contained systems that track for immersive VR. >You don’t need to have external room sensors.

To compete with the high end VR you need more than just head tracking.

The Vision Pro has hand tracking. Anything else?

Limbs and peripherals.

Your hand isn’t a limb? You’re really starting to confuse me.

NeuM

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@celtic_elk said:

@NeuM said:

@celtic_elk said:
Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

It's both. Watch their presentation and suddenly all of these other headsets look obsolete.

Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

Did you bother watching the whole Vision Pro presentation? The glass can remain transparent while presenting a non-transparent overlay and it can also completely block out everything. Check it out again and watch the entire segment.

Didn't I just say that? I am talking about tracking. Nothing to do with visuals.

Tracking has everything to do with the visuals. If there's lag in the tracking, people get motion sickness. There's reportedly no lag in the Apple unit.

Again, not talking about visuals. Tracking applies to limbs and peripherals too.

You keep moving the goalposts every time you respond. I'll let someone else waste their time responding.

AudioGus

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

And I don’t see what the tracking problem is. There are existing self-contained systems that track for immersive VR. >You don’t need to have external room sensors.

To compete with the high end VR you need more than just head tracking.

The Vision Pro has hand tracking. Anything else?

Limbs and peripherals.

Your hand isn’t a limb? You’re really starting to confuse me.

Yes it is the one limb that out of the box they will support. But the high end vr nerds seem to want to stick these tracker nobby things around their body. Will Apple make these things... mmmm, i doubt it, but maybe.

celtic_elk

@AudioGus said:

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

And I don’t see what the tracking problem is. There are existing self-contained systems that track for immersive VR. >You don’t need to have external room sensors.

To compete with the high end VR you need more than just head tracking.

The Vision Pro has hand tracking. Anything else?

Limbs and peripherals.

Your hand isn’t a limb? You’re really starting to confuse me.

Yes it is the one limb that out of the box they will no doubt support. But the high end vr nerds seem to want to stick these tracker nobby things around their body. Will Apple make these things... mmmm, i doubt it, but maybe.

You don’t need full-body tracking for immersive VR. It’s useful for specific applications.

AudioGus

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

@celtic_elk said:

@AudioGus said:

And I don’t see what the tracking problem is. There are existing self-contained systems that track for immersive VR. >You don’t need to have external room sensors.

To compete with the high end VR you need more than just head tracking.

The Vision Pro has hand tracking. Anything else?

Limbs and peripherals.

Your hand isn’t a limb? You’re really starting to confuse me.

Yes it is the one limb that out of the box they will no doubt support. But the high end vr nerds seem to want to stick these tracker nobby things around their body. Will Apple make these things... mmmm, i doubt it, but maybe.

You don’t need full-body tracking for immersive VR. It’s useful for specific applications.

Exactly. But we were previously just jawing about their positioning and whether it is competitive with high end vr or more of a hololens yaddah yaddah etc. some will see it as lesser than this or that because of more limited tracking. I wont, cause i kinda dont care all together, heh just killing time on a forum until my late grocery delivery shows up.

AudioGus

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@celtic_elk said:

@NeuM said:

@celtic_elk said:
Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

It's both. Watch their presentation and suddenly all of these other headsets look obsolete.

Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

Did you bother watching the whole Vision Pro presentation? The glass can remain transparent while presenting a non-transparent overlay and it can also completely block out everything. Check it out again and watch the entire segment.

Didn't I just say that? I am talking about tracking. Nothing to do with visuals.

Tracking has everything to do with the visuals. If there's lag in the tracking, people get motion sickness. There's reportedly no lag in the Apple unit.

Again, not talking about visuals. Tracking applies to limbs and peripherals too.

You keep moving the goalposts every time you respond. I'll let someone else waste their time responding.

No I am not. You were just insisting on interpreting my use of the word 'tracking' as being related to the visual quality component.

skiphunt

Or... it could be a mistake and turn out to be a huge flop, ie. Google “glass”

celtic_elk

@skiphunt said:
Or... it could be a mistake and turn out to be a huge flop, ie. Google “glass”

Fun fact: Google announced the discontinuation of the most recent Google Glass version in mid-March. Of this year, to be clear. That’s almost a decade of production.

NeuM

@celtic_elk said:

@skiphunt said:
Or... it could be a mistake and turn out to be a huge flop, ie. Google “glass”

Fun fact: Google announced the discontinuation of the most recent Google Glass version in mid-March. Of this year, to be clear. That’s almost a decade of production.

They released it way too early with no real defined market.

skiphunt

@celtic_elk said:

@skiphunt said:
Or... it could be a mistake and turn out to be a huge flop, ie. Google “glass”

Fun fact: Google announced the discontinuation of the most recent Google Glass version in mid-March. Of this year, to be clear. That’s almost a decade of production.

I wonder who bought them for 10 years? I live in Austin, Texas which has a LOT of tech and tech workers. I’ve never seen a pair of Google Glass in the wild.

Carnbot

Yeah I think Google are going to release a new AR headset "Iris" soon. So the AR space will get quite competitive which is good.

NeuM

@Carnbot said:
Yeah I think Google are going to release a new AR headset "Iris" soon. So the AR space will get quite competitive which is good.

And unless they engaged in industrial espionage with Apple, it'll probably be underwhelming... again.

skiphunt

To be clear… I DO think they’re cool as HELL. I might even be convinced to buy a pair (if I won the lotto) - but, my main concern would be that after I finished paying $3500, they’d come out with a way cooler pair that did everything 10 times better and cheaper just a year later.

I’m definitely NOT going to be first in line for these. I’ll wait for at least a couple release cycles before I even consider it at all.

celtic_elk

@skiphunt said:

@celtic_elk said:

@skiphunt said:
Or... it could be a mistake and turn out to be a huge flop, ie. Google “glass”

Fun fact: Google announced the discontinuation of the most recent Google Glass version in mid-March. Of this year, to be clear. That’s almost a decade of production.

I wonder who bought them for 10 years? I live in Austin, Texas which has a LOT of tech and tech workers. I’ve never seen a pair of Google Glass in the wild.

Given that the recent versions have been labeled "Enterprise Editions," my guess is that it’s the same market as the Microsoft HoloLens: high-end industrial and design work, maybe healthcare.

Simon

@NeuM said:
This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

So... you gonna buy one?

NeuM

@Simon said:

@NeuM said:
This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

So... you gonna buy one?

I never said I was an early adopter.

Simon

@NeuM said:

@Simon said:

@NeuM said:
This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

So... you gonna buy one?

I never said I was an early adopter.

I'll take that as a "no"...

Grandbear

@NeuM said:
OMG. Meta just became completely irrelevant.

Was it ever relevant?

Svetlovska

Meh. Call me when they look like these:

And cost £500.

AudioGus

@Svetlovska said:
Meh. Call me when they look like these:

>

And cost £500.

Even then, meh, I quit wearing my prescription glasses, let everything be blurry. I am waiting for a neural implant something or other.

NeuM

@Svetlovska said:
Meh. Call me when they look like these:

And cost £500.

Sure, but no one has anything like that available at any price.

Svetlovska

I think you’ll find if you go to a particular basement in a back alley in the Sprawl, say the right words and push a few stacks of this weeks crypto into the right off-planet blackbank, you can find a struck off Romanian cyber doc who can sort you out with a malenky bit of the old mirrorshades, actually.

dendy

one think i see like potentislly positive.. if this breaks Cook's neck and he will be forced to resign after huge fail of this producy
t, hope someone more vissionary with ability to move Apple from swamp of c> @Svetlovska said:

Meh. Call me when they look like these:

And cost £500.

i'll wait for neuralink v.10.0 for full fledge all 5 senses immersion :-D

@AudioGus
I am waiting for a neural implant something or other.

This.

Svetlovska

Ah, in that case, Mr Musk is waiting on line 2:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jun/04/elon-musk-neuralink-approved-human-testing-concern?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

ervin

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@NeuM said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I expect to want to watch it, completely forget as I either take a nap or engross myself in music, and then come back here to catch the highlights minus the narcissistic circle-jerk of "oh how great we are" from Apple. 🤣

When they introduce something new, it’s usually well-earned. The competition copies Apple for a reason.

True, they always do copy Apple for the most part. However, Android tablets always came with a stylus while it took Apple a few years before they released their 1st gen Apple Pencil. That said, well-earned or not, I don't want to spent 40-50 minutes hearing them boast just to glean 10-15 minutes accumulated of actually useful information. 😂

They do lead the world in some areas and they lag behind in other areas. But in we-know-better, self-aggrandising BS noone comes close (well, with the possible exception of Elon) 👍

NeuM

@ervin said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@NeuM said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I expect to want to watch it, completely forget as I either take a nap or engross myself in music, and then come back here to catch the highlights minus the narcissistic circle-jerk of "oh how great we are" from Apple. 🤣

When they introduce something new, it’s usually well-earned. The competition copies Apple for a reason.

True, they always do copy Apple for the most part. However, Android tablets always came with a stylus while it took Apple a few years before they released their 1st gen Apple Pencil. That said, well-earned or not, I don't want to spent 40-50 minutes hearing them boast just to glean 10-15 minutes accumulated of actually useful information. 😂

They do lead the world in some areas and they lag behind in other areas. But in we-know-better, self-aggrandising BS noone comes close (well, with the possible exception of Elon) 👍

But when they're right, they're right. And that has been more often the case than not.

klownshed

People are going to lose their shit over this headset like they did for every other new Apple release. Even the iPhone.

But from what I can see this isn’t just about the goggles. It’s a complete Os including new hardware they’ve made.

All that stuff is going to trickle down to products people will most certainly want to buy, even though they’re not in the market for £3.5K ski goggles.

This could be their LaFerrari/P1 moment. The tech will trickle down. And it still costs less in real terms than the original 128K Mac.

It won’t be too long before the phones get displays made with similar tech (which will be another tick in the made by apple box) with less reliance on the likes of Samsung in the future.

The $3500 headset is obviously not going to sell like hot cakes. It will be a long time before we can judge whether the project itself is a failure.

I’m not going to pretend I know better than Tim Apple and tell him what he should have done.

my company has 2 employees. 1 of them is me. So I clearly don’t know how to run a Trillion Dollar company

ervin

@NeuM said:

@ervin said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@NeuM said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I expect to want to watch it, completely forget as I either take a nap or engross myself in music, and then come back here to catch the highlights minus the narcissistic circle-jerk of "oh how great we are" from Apple. 🤣

When they introduce something new, it’s usually well-earned. The competition copies Apple for a reason.

True, they always do copy Apple for the most part. However, Android tablets always came with a stylus while it took Apple a few years before they released their 1st gen Apple Pencil. That said, well-earned or not, I don't want to spent 40-50 minutes hearing them boast just to glean 10-15 minutes accumulated of actually useful information. 😂

They do lead the world in some areas and they lag behind in other areas. But in we-know-better, self-aggrandising BS noone comes close (well, with the possible exception of Elon) 👍

But when they're right, they're right. And that has been more often the case than not.

That makes @jwmmakerofmusic 's watching method the correct one: cut the BS, get the wisdom. 😉