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It's a platform for delivering ads.
Yeah. That too. One can argue that an advertiser is a user, who wants to spread their content to other users.
But even the ad game isn’t profitable. For every 1000 views, maybe 100 will watch the ad, and maybe 3 people will actually click the link with the intent to check out the product.
But it’s a necessary expense to spread awareness on a product.
Now, advertisers will usually want to work with people who already established themselves, or cater to a certain demographic. That’s why the “bigger YouTubers” get sponsorship deals. It’s the fastest way for companies to reach people that could potentially buy their products and serve as a future customer.
There is no free money. Someone ultimately has to pay for it. And none of us are willing to work for free. So, whether it’s by time, money, or data…something is exchanged, for something that is valuable to another user.
Okay, I’m going on a philosophical rant here. Maybe get an adblocker. Or get YouTube premium. Idk…to each their own.
Agreed,...and nothing like what used to happen.
I was involved a few in the past so I say this from experience.
There's no captive audience.
The two years that didn't happen saw the boom on YouTube
these days people haven't got the time or energy.
Makes more sense now to keep it going as a personal diary
that is shared with an audience which can be entertaining.
In other words a personal reality show.
Agreed.
Like @Simon said YouTube is a place for ads so if you're (not you personally)
going to make money from YT then realise that you're an advertiser
which is what the iOS Tubers are to a certain degree.
They advertise a product (in this instance apps),
give instructions how to use it, users buy the product.
The dev's keep on coding and it all keeps on going...
Which is almost perfect except for what happens with the apps afterwards?
What happens when the users have all of the apps that they could ever possibly have?
Can the dev's keep on coming up with new ideas for the users to buy?
Okay, I’m on page 3. Nice.
Now, what are gigs that can make you money?
It’s the same as always. Find what the customer needs. Most people watching YouTube are NOT paying customers. They are people looking for something to either solve a problem, or for entertainment.
And that’s okay. Some of the most successful influencers making it on here include Seids, Karra/Reid Stefan, Andrew Huang, and more.
So, for the fun of it, let’s have a case study of each of them. And this serves as promotion for each of their Instagram platform, which is why I’m going into them in detail.
SEIDS
SEIDS is an interesting case. She came up during the pandemic and used to be a cabaret singer on a ship. She talks a lot about her experiences on her Instagram, but I’m surmising here for the purpose of analysis.
How does she make her money? Well, it’s a combination of working with musical brands like Arturia, Splice, and more. She does sing and perform as well, and shares others ways of making money. But from what I’ve observed, sponsorships are a decent part of her income.
And how did she get there? Simply by making great, engaging content. And building relationships with brands, beyond asking for products.
Let’s look at the next one…
KARRA/REID STEFAN
The musical duo of a singer/producer, each with their own accolades, but recently got married. They combine their own flair in their content creation.
Karra’s marketing is bold, focusing on her vocals and her feminine charms, while making amazing content. She has a ton of vocal samples on her website at iamkarra.com but she started out as a content creator for Splice, and singer for a lot of artists.
Now she runs a successful business, and is a producer with her own skills, making a ton of dedicated content for different DAWs.
Reid relies more on the use of his puppet, and jokes to captivate his producer audience. His catchphrases like “ disrespectful bass” , or “so
disrespectful, even your mother will feel offended” , and his branding of his sample packs like cereal boxes gives him a unique flair in his marketing.
And here’s the thing…they don’t post that much content on YouTube. Tutorials serve to show what they do. But they aren’t their moneymaker.
Now, let’s look at a legendary YouTube Producer, and fellow Canadian, “Andrew Huang”
ANDREW HUANG
He’s been active since the earlier days of YouTube so he definitely did profit before the affiliate program changed. And he has a solid backlog of content to keep him afloat. But that’s not the only thing he’s done.
He literally released a best selling book called , “Make your own rules”. So, he transitioned from being a producer to being an author. He also worked on an app a few years ago called Flip, which leveraged his large audience. I should know…I bought the app.
With the climate here in Ontario, there’s a possibility Andrew has a full time job. But he’s so successful he could technically live off his sponsorships.
Actually most of these creators have something else giving them an income. Let’s look at our most successful iOS producer out there…HennyThaBizness.
Henry was a professor at Morehouse college, up until 2022 when he was called up to work for the Grammy Chapter. I should know…I was in town the time he got nominated. We didn’t meet up because our schedules clashed. I did go in style (on a Dodge Challenger…love that car)
Anyways, Henny made content to inspire creatives. He didn’t need the YouTube revenue. He already has an established career as an educator, and Grammy Producer. The revenue from YouTube was just encouragement to keep going.
That’s me at Morehouse College…
So, I’m using this as a source of encouragement to those reading this post (because it really isn’t that many people that will read this). Find a way to make your platform work for you. And use it to inspire, not tear down people who are starting out.
Okay, I’ll end my rant. Gotta get back to work.
@seonnthaproducer
Agreed.
Encourage not tear down.
You've raised some very good points.
Money making isn't only about providing content on YouTube.
Speaking as a lifelong musician and Artist there are so
many ways to make money it's finding the ways that work for you
and what you are willing to do as well.
For the users it's what they willing to invest their time and money into and
it's obvious what the dev's, content creators and Artists devote their time to including myself.
I'm off to sleep myself (international time zones and everything) so I'll see you on the flipside.
Have fun at work.
I need to be clear on the app side of things, based on my little experience working with programmers in the telecommunications field, and in the automotive industry.
App developers, unless for a select few, make little money unless they are excellent marketers.
Even established companies like Moog, and IK see little returns from the iOS app. They make 4x the amount from sales on the desktop side of things.
But even that is slowing down. AI is making music easier to do, and platforms like Suno take away the production from the workflow.
And there aren’t as many new tools that will surprise users. There’s only so much compressors you need.
It’s a discussion for another day. Currently at work, can’t type a lot.
Definitely agree with @espiegel123 @gusgranite @01XMO . There were absolutely no ground for deleting that thread. Was the OP banned too?
I was reading in real time the exchange on the now defunct thread until its deletion, not that I really care about the topic itself, but because I was actually concerned seeing a wonderful human being like Gavin being caught in the fire line.
While I agree the OP was indeed in a combative mood, he never insulted anyone and was just expressing his own views with his own arguments. the OP even softened the tone of his exchange with @Gravitas right before the thread was deleted.
As a long time ABF member, I was honestly shocked seeing the thread deleted. first because it could give the wrong impression that a great contributor to the iOS community like Gavin could have instigated the deletion which is not the case. Second because it stopped feeling like proper moderating job and started to lurk more on the censorship side... While I didn't agree with everything the OP was saying and the way he sometime expressed it, shutting his thread was certainly not a impartial and fair decision, unless he was the one who expressively asked for it.
To the moderators and administrators, I am sure managing a forum like this is not an easy task, and I wish to thank you for the hard work. But could you please try to keep this place a haven of free speech. These days, we desperately need those!
PS: sorry to express my opinion here, as it is not contributing to the topic, but it is the only place that seemed right. Hoping I won't get expelled or banned for this 😉
I don't understand why this thread was introduced as combining YouTube & iOS. They seem like two different things. Or is the topic only about the cross-section?
As for iOS, it's still very essential for me. How could I function without AUM? My guitar pedals and cameras have iOS apps. My power bank has an app. Now even my notation software (finally!) has an app.
YouTube, on the other hand, has been inundated with republishers and click bait. What a mess it is becoming. Was it 5 years ago (or longer?) that everyone started making longer videos because of "the algorithm"? And making more videos. In the beginning, no one cared about quality or production skills. There was loads of content just made to help and educate. Now the clamoring for subscribers is getting to be a real turnoff.
That's actually a really good point. They are two separate discussions.
I thought this thread was supposed to be more about iOS YouTubers, like the original thread, which I also thought shouldn't have been censored and the OP banned.
There was also quality, does the quality of the work warrant more subscribers, likes, views, engagement? Or, is it exactly right, where it is, proportional to the effort made? Google think it is, I agree, as other YouTube channels are growing.
Someone else pointed out in the sales thread regarding Leo, Gav and Doug 'You have, in total, between you, less than 100k subscribers. Doug, with 71k has the majority share and even he is getting, on average, no more than 1k views per video, which, if I recall (from what you've said previously) is less than £5 in revenue so that's never going to be a viable income stream'.
I think Doug amassed the largest audience because he was in early, at a time when the competition, research and production quality wasn't there and with the help of the original STR content that @jakoB_haQ made. I suspect a large amount of those subs are long dead but haven't bothered to unsub, just muted notifications. They’ve likely also subbed to the other creators and newer ones. This is borne out in the low viewing and engagement numbers mentioned too.
Said the pot to the kettle.
Talking of @IK_Multimedia and code giveaways. Didn't someone recently give away a MixBox promo code to their friend on here, that was supplied by a IK Multimedia? Didn't it then turnout they had needed their friend to help them with an ongoing problem they still have with distributing multiple MixBox presets? Pure innocent coincidence I'm sure, but I think more care may be needed when it comes to promo codes distribution. I wonder how the contact at IK Multimedia feels about this, if they even know, and if they would ever give them codes again?
Isn't this the way of all markets though? As a market grows, More come to hock their wares to that market trying to gain a foothold. As more come, the market gets saturated and some fall by the wayside. In most markets 'Labour of love' is not enough to succeed. Some will survive through great advertising, or product placement or just dumb luck.....some won't survive whatever they bring to the party.
Markets are like living breathing creatures - they have lifespans and sometimes are affected by not only their own actions, but also things out of their control. That's why I buy multiples of certain apps over time - I know some will fail and become useless code in the void.
Even PC music making devs and you tubers live and die at the sometimes cruel wim of market forces and other such things - at least on the grand scale of things, music making apps are low on the hierarchy of needs!
I thought I did... Did someone remove it? Or did I just forget? I'll try again.
A typical YouTuber these days, twelve long boring minutes of drawn-out BS to sell her f'ing course to the naive and gullible 🤣
It seems quite clear to me, reading this thread, that you shouldn’t go into being a YouTube creator unless you’re doing it because you enjoy making the content and hopefully getting a bit of positive feedback from your audience as a return. The expectation of making a living - or any money - from it seems extremely unlikely (unless you’re very lucky) and therefore if you’re the sort of person who’s going to get pissed off because you’re not being financially rewarded for the effort you’re putting in, then it doesn’t sound like it’s the right gig for you.
Be honest with yourself about your motivations and then ask whether being a YouTube creator is helping achieve those goals?
.> @knewspeak said:
Bully.
There was another question about whether regularly complaining about not being paid as much as you want, not having as big an audience as you want, not getting the engagement you want, and life not being what you want, was relevant and helpful or Off-putting.
In every other sphere the answer is work harder, be better. Difficult if they're at maximum capacity, as it sounds like they are, or can't change, evolve, adapt. They'll be stuck where they are, like now.
I feel sorry for Gav and Doug but are the signs not there? They need to transform. Even Gav's call for support on his YouTube Community pages have got next to no responses on YouTube. It's very sad to see when this happens.
You noticed that he started to mellow as well.
I was quite surprised myself as I've seen far worse
go down in other threads over the years and as
I've mentioned earlier I was involved in a few myself.
Anyway the mods did what they did, what's done is done.
That's why this thread was created.
Firstly because the discussion was clogging up
the iOS apps Sales and discussions thread,
many users where complaining about it
secondly because the other thread was deleted and
finally because the points raised where valid
though expressed in a combative way.
Well we shall soon find out.
Another point to consider is the amount of consumption possible. By this I mean the amount of apps we can possibly buy, the amount of youtube minutes we can possibly watch and the amount of hardware devices it's even possible to squeeze into our musical lives. How these figures work within the usual model of business.
Let's first consider how business relies on 'growth', or so we are told (I sometimes think what they actually mean is greed lol). Doesn't matter if you are a small time youtuber or the latest dev making iOS music apps - you can start small making sacrifices to initially grow your business to hopefully gain enough money to make it sustainable. Problem is, the system is designed that without continual growth, your business will not remain sustainable! Add to this the continual need to add new money revenues as the market changes, it's easy to see why many small businesses collapse - large businesses weather the non profitable products, services and market changes by having enough money - small businesses are often unable to do this.
Back to consumption - it's limited! Pure and simple fact. You can only milk one avenue for so long before you have to rest that stream or it will simply dry up or fail to meet the continual need for 'growth'. That's why the vast majority of businesses will eventually fail. The downside of this is that our world is now under the thumb of a few ever increasing giant corporations with the spending power of many small countries. In this world, our little hobby of music making barely registers on the latest forecasts, let alone long term goal - growth and consumption of market share.
Yeah some positives exist, like the ability for us to consume ever cheaper product, but as with the finite consumption possible by us consumers, there is also only so much wealth. As the corporations slowly consume the world's wealth, there will come a day when the well runs dry. I almost find it ironic that the basic building block of our music, the sinewave, is the same as the boom and bust cycle of business.
It's why so many of us are mentioning the fact that the original thread was deleted.
You're not the only one for sure.
Hence why this discussion is pertinent.
True.
That friend being me as in I was the one who received the code
and yes indeed not only did he need assistance in sharing multiple presets,
the preset section in said app isn't working properly and both he (the person who gave me the app)
and I have been trying to figure out workarounds to an issue with said app and
IK multimedia are not replying or havent replied yet whichever way you want to look at it.
And yep it could be mistaken for hhhmmm nepotism or something similar
and yep more care could be taken in regards to giveaways,
I was going to suggest to my friend that he used the random generaator
that some use on FB namely @ninobeatz and a couple others.
However it is what it is and we are all learning by the seat of our pants.
Said app is really, really good by the way.
Thanks @seonnthaproducer and @ikmultimedia @IK_Multimedia
Agreed and I was stating the obvious.
What I'm lookng at is what needs to change
to keep this small niche market going or if anything needs changing at all
because the dev's and iOS tubers are not making enough money
and without them the market will simply stall.
No worries.
Thank you.
Will it though? As some fall by the wayside, will it not open up market share for some others letting them survive? Maybe the few large company homogeneous market with bland product is just the final destination (yes, a play on the name of the film) of all markets as the larger whole (civilisations) grows then falls!? The sine waves goodbye.
This is why this discussion started in the first place.
The change that Gav made was to move away from youtube and focus on his patreon
hence why there's even less traffic now on his YouTube though as he mentioned earlier
there was declining traffic anyway hence the move to patreon.
The OP of the now deleted thread was asking if it was lucrative or beneficial (from my understanding)
for dev's to give promo codes to iOS Tubers when the promo codes end up being behind a paywall.
Unfortunately for the OP though he expressed valid points,
he included that he was fed up both Gav and Doug's continuous "whining" in regards to their life situations
which many would take offence at including myself actually however that's a moot point at this stage.
Many people including myself will keep difficult situations very private,
both Doug and Gav bared their souls to the public and it was/is a very brave thing for them to do.
Agreed, they needed to transform and they both did.
They moved across to Patreon hopefully the move across to Patreon is being good to them.
It's the buying users that are keeping the market afloat
and what happens when they have all of the apps.
How many sacrifices can one make?
How many more skills can one learn especially when they are earning even less?
I've done this in my career to my detriment.
Probono work here, a favour there because
they couldn't afford my proper rates
and the client benefits and my bank account is empty
and clients are demanding much, much more for even less money.
Agreed.
Agreed.
That was mentioned earlier, large bland homogenous companies with crap tech support (I added that end bit there).
True when businesses fall by the wayside it does create gaps for other companies to step in.
Sometimes it does need a bland homogenous company to even show interest in a market for the market to say,
"well things need to change around here, we need to survive, we don't want bland" and that generates reviving interest.