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Comments
You better hurry there’s only 90 seconds on the Doomsday Clock.
I've already given my 60 sec tutorial so you've only got 30 secs left.
Oh shhhhhhh.
.........it
lololololololo
I’m curious about this too. TikTok isn’t something I spend much time on. I know they allow longer videos now but it seems to be geared toward people who just want a quick burst of dopamine. Whether it’s excerpts from comedy shows, goofy or shocking moments captured on video, or the ever present dancing videos, that’s what seems to get attention. I don’t know how the iOS platform translates into something like that. There are certainly exciting apps to play with, I just can’t imagine a way to showcase them in a short format without it looking like a commercial.
I personally refused to engage with TikTok.
I once tried with X formerly known as Twitter when it was Twitter and it just wasn't for me.
Facebook has a similar thing called Reels.
I think there's one a week that I like otherwise for the most part it's dross.
I noted that Gavinski tried YouTube shorts which were
also shared to his Instagram and
then I noted that they stopped coming.
Neither can I.
At 30 secs it is a commercial
When I used to do sound for commercials and T.V. the lengths were
15 secs
30 secs
1 min
1 min 30 secs.
I will say though what you could possibly do with the shorts is turn them
into a series that focuses only on a specific part of an app.
Short 1, Series 1, Episode 1 focuses on "How to navigate the menus"
Short 2, Series 1, Episode 2 focuses on how many oscillators the app has
etc, etc.
You would have to do some really sharp editing and hard cuts but it is doable.
At that level of editing you might as well do a full length one and export out chunks as needed.
Like this? (Though it's ironic that Martin Keary aka Tantacrul is posting his How I Fell Out of Love with Facebook magnum rant on YouTube.)
I personally have had some successes at the TikTok platform.
tiktok.com/seonnthaproducer
But it’s not consistent. I really don’t think my next video will do that well. But I also don’t want to dilute what I put out in hopes of nailing the right combination that works for me.
I've been entertained by TikTok when I've used it, but I've not figured out how to "cultivate it". Actually the biggest deterrent for me is the lack of a good iPad app. Whoa, there's a decent iPad app now!
It's been 6 years since Lil Nas X and 5 years since Sarah Cooper. Is TikTok still launching careers?
The potential ban or sale of TikTok in America is also something to consider.
What we're trying to figure is what will keep users looking at a channel.
In this regards we creators do care.
Love only goes so far especially when the people on
the receiving end of the content created are not investing.
I think there are other reasons why as well I think however that's just speculation.
We can't click with everyone and we know what and who we click with so it's all good.
No worries.
You haven't said anything offensive at all.
Doesn't look like it.
It is assisting in maintaining careers though.
My personal viewpoint about all this is that the offering has to be bigger than just a YouTube clip. All of these social media platforms are avenues to reach people, but they are not really the income generators from what I can see.
Google owns the rights to everything on the platform and can do whatever they want with that content. They control the space and if I was using YouTube for income generation it would be to put promotional stuff on only and put my income generating offerings in my own environment. There are so many avenues out there to reach people and just concentrating on YouTube to do this is just putting yourself in a position of vulnerability and reliance on the whims of the advertising platform itself.
I think it’s better to look at YouTube and the like as platforms for entertainment and a place to find “how to” videos. I’m still trying to understand the motivation of so many people wanting to explain to me how to service my John Deere tractor, but hey, it’s sometimes a good thing. Would I subscribe to them for this information? Probably not. It’s just as easy to find the information when I need it by putting a search term into the search bar and go from there. This way I’m not inundated in notifications and my home page feed updates more dynamically with what I’m interested in now.
Also, as has been mentioned, YouTube is saturated now. In fact a lot of the Internet is saturated now. Just looking for something on a search engine finds you wading through a quagmire of competitive SEO results before maybe finding what you’re actually looking for on page 4 or something if you have the patience.
Maybe the “real” world is actually the place to live life and the Internet is a place to check into occasionally?
Yes, iOS music is a very, very small part of the greater wide world waste of time and I guess the percentage return income wise is probably an accurate representation of that small market share. How you make money out of it directly is something that has yet to be solved by anyone by the looks of it.
Maybe some things are meant to be done more for the love of it rather than tying yourself down to making it a “serious” thing.
Plenty of places to get serious out there.
Kind of like pigeon fanciers. Fantastic hobby, but how many people are going to make money out of the pigeon industry?
Anyway, just some rambling thoughts…..
One other thought…
We do like to be entertained even when we are watching instructional videos. At the end of the day YouTube is essentially a big TV station with multiple channels…something to keep in mind….not everybody is cut out to be a TV presenter.
Agree with this totally. I have lots of information. Use lots of apps. Can design some decent I structional vids, but I suck at presenting! I'm just not that type of person and never will be. It's probably why I never ended up the lead singer in any bands, as while I could sing better than many of them, I just don't have that desire or personality to be the centre of attention. I used humour down the pub to make friends and be popular, but I never felt comfortable when I had peoples attention (except maybe the ladies lol)
This is it, make it entertaining!
It was said somewhere before, probably the thread that should never have been deleted but, taking ages to make a point, bellyaching, ad-libbing, using crap effects, saying hello to the same people in the chat, vaping, none of this is entertaining! The better channels get on with it, don't do any of this and they are more entertaining!
This thread has nothing to do with the future of the iOS platform. I think the title needs changing so as not to be so misleading. The future of the iOS platform is in the hands of Apple, not in the hands of any iOS music YouTuber, developer or musician. They've made that very clear. It’s why no one has posted anything about it here. It would be more effective writing direct to Apple. And, if you’ve ever tried that, you’d know, it’s completely pointless!
It’s not like music production is dying. It’s just, there hasn’t been a large marketing push that shows people, that the iOS is good for music making. And, maybe that is for a reason? Regardless of all the cool apps - especially the variety of midi processors - the ergonomics and logistics are horrible.
You need to buy special adapters that may or may not work in order to connect to other gear. Even the most powerful DAW on iOS is a shadow of the immense functionality offered on desktop. And working on a crowded touchscreen is at best a passable experience.
It is definitely possible to make music, and very easy to experiment in apps like AUM, but regular people, who need to get-shit-done, probably don’t have the patience for figuring out the ecosystem and dealing with the constraints.
Have to agree with a lot of this comment. I love iOS for making music, but there is no doubting it has some pretty major issues if your aim is to be the most productive you can be with making music. My music making is purely a hobby, so I get the positives of the constraints of iOS music making, like with the latest fad of hardware ‘dawless’ boxes and how they promote creativity through the ‘less is more’ ideal. If I really wanted to finish more or actually did this as a living, I would whole heartedly use a computer and full blown DAW.
As I said in a previous post, I like the small market adventure and wilderness of iOS music making. As the iOS music making market grows, things do get a little easier, but also it seems to me that a little part of its soul is lost as well.
A lot of truth here. I think there’s also some reasons related to it that are more nuanced.
First off the push thing. Apps are cheaper on iOS, without getting into the whys and that, there’s a little bit of…it’s easier to charge more when it’s a company paying the bill. A professional working environment, not music production per se but as part of a bigger company. Think tv, film, university. Add to that the framework/attitude that it’s sitting at a desk is real work, iPad etc isn’t seen like that, it’s inherently viewed as personal.
Furthermore, I don’t think devs utilise the touch nature and potential of iPad because it’s not worth it price wise, so it’s seen as not as good cos it’s judged in relative terms.
With regards to TikTok. I have ADHD, (I can’t sit and make music at a desk, it feels like work and not in a yes it enjoyable work way.) I stay away from the crack version of social media. It has the potential to ruin my day. I think it’s about using what that platform does to your benefit. A 30 second, ‘you want to know how to make big bass like x’ hit the link. Like a feeder channel to your other social media. But I admit it’s got to sound awesome to drag someone away from constant drip of dopamine.
I think these are very relevant points and questions! Looking at the push towards Patreon in the YT space, and the push towards subscription pricing in the app space there's some answers. This sphere does not extend far enough to support infinite growth, and the products in either case are not consumable (like food or fuel). So, recurring subscription payments make the best business sense. Consumers complain (myself included!), but it is a reality that many app and/or content businesses face right now.
I can only really speak with much experience from the development side of things, but the proliferation of cheap apps, the ability to download apps and receive free updates regularly, and the expectation that developers perform perpetual maintenance makes little financial sense unless:
I don't have much experience as a content creator, certainly nothing like many people here have, but it seems like a similar problem in a way.
I think the iOS music production scene is just a niche within a niche, the only possibility of making it pay is to increase your viewing base by branching into desktop and hardware, but that scene has a lot of competition already, so there’s no easy answer.
A couple of points I'd like to make:
Regularly putting out 'content' may start as a hobby, but at a certain point, for most people, it will start to feel like a job - part time or full time depending on the hours etc. There may be time pressures, stress, and it will have a mix of enjoyable and unenjoyable aspects. There will always be fluctuations in this, some apps are easy to learn and demo, some are not. Some people are able to crank out videos quickly and regularly, some are not. Sometimes you're under huge time pressure and quality might suffer a bit, sometimes things are leisurely. One thing is sure - it all involves a lot more work and pressure than most viewers realise.
Everyone doing it is in different life situations and financial situations. Some don't need or want financial recompense for whatever reasons, some do. And when people start YouTube they generally have no idea how long it will take to get monetised or what the rewards will be. They may already have invested a huge amount of time and love before they realise what a struggle it will be to be compensated fairly for their time. They may then fall prey to 'sunk cost fallacy'.
If the niche is small, and also if many viewers watch behind an ad blocker, revenue from YouTube will be miniscule. That means that 'creators' who need an income from what they are doing have to 'upsell' in some way.
The community and devs benefit from the YouTuber scene in this niche, especially due to the general lack of demo versions. Everyone has their own preferences, so there should ideally be a variety of YouTubers catering to different tastes and needs. The iOS YouTuber community is already a shadow of what it once was, and this is bad for the ecosystem. One of the most important reasons for the dearth of YouTubers is the scrapping of the Apple Affiliate Program in 2017, which killed the main source of income for YouTubers - and also contributed to iOS apps rarely being covered by mainstream publications like Sound on Sound, Music Radar etc - they also need affiliate commissions to survive. Hence, if users and devs want this scene to survive and thrive, they might consider it in their own interests to directly financially support creators they like. The lack of an Apple Affiliate program makes me question how viable it is for me to continue in this niche. Sure I could add coverage of desktop-only apps but there are a lot of potential downsides to this. Generally it is best to stick to a very specific niche so YouTube knows clearly who to target your videos towards. Not doing so can lead to bad results with the algorithm.
There is a phenomonen called 'The Bystander Effect' where people are actually less likely to help someone in need when others are present (because everyone expects someone else will). This applies also to things like YouTubers asking for support via platforms like Patreon. This is why I give info on the income from Patreon and YouTube - so people can understand for themselves the need for them to support channels like mine if they like them enough to want them to stick around. Those viewers who don't like or value our work in any way are not the people we're appealing to, they should ignore such requests.
Few viewers watch every vid, make it to the end of any video, or even make it past the first few minutes. Hence the need to regularly remind viewers of the situation, remind them of the need for support. Some might regard this as annoying, but really, expecting viewers to put up with a short section of the video where the creator reminds viewers of the need to support is hardly a big ask. If the tone seems whiney from time to time, people might decide to react with compassion rather than hostility.
I can't speak for anyone else but most of my Patrons find my Patreon immensely good value for money. It is not just a tip jar for my YouTube.
Tldr:
Rather than viewing requests for support from creators as whinging, viewers might consider these as valuable information allowing them to make an informed decision about whether it might be in their own interest to support a channel, when the alternative might be that the creator quits or radically reduces their output. If the viewer enjoys someone's videos, is inspired by them, or appreciates having someone else read the manual for them and explain it in video walkthroughs, they may consider that regularly supporting via Patreon, or occasionally giving one-off donations, is a rational, informed decision from which they themselves will benefit. Devs might consider that sponsoring or donating is an equally wise decision, if they don't want their most valuable source of marketing - youtubers - to be even further decimated than it has been in recent years. Or people might decide they really don't care, but may come to regret it when yet more YouTubers disappear from the scene.
Another interesting point raised in Tom’s post except, YouTubers aren't the advertiser, they don't create or own the product, that's the developer. Their product is being advertised therefore they, rightly, are the advertiser.
YouTubers are more like advertising agencies or production companies, albeit one person agencies. They create the content.
Most advertising, in any form these days, is uninspiring, lacks creativity and isn’t entertaining. Occasionally, something stands out and is clever and wonderful. Usually because it’s been well researched, well thought out, well written, with a creative angle and well executed. Certain agencies begin to stand out. If there’s a lesson to be learned it’s that they, the good ones, don’t roll out the same ad for different products and different clients, time after time. If they did they’d go out of business because the results and income would flatline and they wouldn’t be retained. Similar to what’s happening for the YouTubers who are failing to adapt their content, irrelevant of the paywall.
A few thoughts on these topics as a longtime iOS YouTube follower of many channels, and someone who has a non-revenue based YT channel of my own for iOS apps and music.
• app giveaways behind a paywall
If you provide great content and make your knowledge and expertise available on YouTube (for free), then sure, why not offer perks and other value-add items for those who want more and who would appreciate those things and use them. Giveaways that are free for all are fine, but the percentage of entrants who just want something free, or just get satisfaction from winning and don't actually use the app can be a detractor, and of little benefit to the dev.
• the practice of dev's giving out free codes and the incentive behind doing so
A very solid strategy if utilized smartly. It generates some excitement around the app, and it can sometimes bridge the gap for people who were on the fence or only mildly interested in the app, and is just another way to bring people in. If you're a dedicated fan of the dev or the app, you'll proably buy it. If you're just an app collector, you might get your hands on a code from someone, but if you're in that middle range, it just might tip the balance.
• the time, effort and energy that goes into creating iOS content for YT and the revenue generated
I'm not in that category myself, but I recognize that there are some very dedicated YouTubers out there who put in massive amounts of effort, and create great content that benefits me and others, and I know that YT doesn't pay out that much, so I try to support my top people through superchats, memberships, Patreon and stuff like that, as well as clicking the like and commenting (but always because I want to, not because I need to).
• is it worth creating content for YT when the return is so small
An excellent question for YT creators. I feel that it is often a labor of love.
• there is now less interaction between users and content creators how to change this?
A great point. Personally, I find my own attention spread thinner than ever - YT, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Patreon, etc. I think creators have to plan carefully on where to focus there energy and which platforms have the audience that they want. There is a real danger in trying to cater to everyone everywhere to get maximum exposure, and what happens is your content and your message can get diluted. Users want to interact with creators that they feel see and hear them, so any way that you can get your content out and maintain a level of direct interaction (especially with a core audience) is essential. If you spread yourself too thin, you can easily lose that personal touch you maintain with the core members. Patreon or any another value-added service is a great way to enhance this because you have an audience there that you know is invested (at least for a while), and you can give them more value and more personalized interaction - extended videos, special offers, members-only interactive livestreams, etc.
• what do users want to see from iOS content creators
I believe that you can never go wrong by focusing on being authentic and providing content that has your specific style and personality attached to it, and which you feel passionate about, regardless of the actual content. It also needs to feel like a conversation, that you are talking directly to your listeners and are interested in what they think and want, and that must come across in your presentation. A very didactic or lecturing style of great actual content will generally fare worse than a conversational, more informal yet personal approach of mediocre content. I personally value watching someone who knows what they are talking about, and can present information in a clear concise manner with a few visual aides and with a personal touch. That is lot more appealing than someone who has beautiful lighting and cameras and a super polished presentation that is overly shiny and ultra-scripted. On the other hand shiny, polished and scripted is great for certain topics and certain audiences, and relaxed, informal and entertaining is great for other topics and audiences. Bottom line, authenticity, passion and competence are the most valued qualities, but you need to vibe with your audience, and it needs to be real.
**Edited: Clarity in wording.
**Edit - Addendum - 10/14/24 6:14 pm
I feel out of touch with the vibe of this thread, maybe too serious. I don't have any credentials that I can point to or any big following on any social media that I can use to justify my arguments, just a gut feeling and my own limited experience, but it's fun to play expert!
All very valid points.
Thank you.
Wait - my joke stinks
@yellow_eyez er no that would be me.
Oh well then my joke is totally pointless - moving to edit
(Thx for the gentle tap squeals lol)