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LK - for Ableton Live & Midi by Imaginando - AUv3 Clip Launcher Finally Available in AUM!!

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Comments

  • PxlhgPxlhg
    edited November 2020

    @sinosoidal said:

    @Pxlhg said:
    Sure but it might be me not fully understanding how to set it up. There's an individual start/stop for each track and I have now discovered I can turn it of that way. But that doesn't seem right so what should I do to make all LK-tracks listening to start/stop from the very beginning? (What does the headphone icon do?) Two tracks have imported midi and a third I draw some notes myself.

    Sorry, I think it is important to refer that on LK, a track doesn't play. Clip does!

    There is a stop all track clips button on each track. But there is no such thing as track start.

    I don't fully understand what are you trying to achieve. I'm assuming you want the song to start as soon as you click play on AUM start button.

    To accomplish that, you need to have the desired clips in triggered state. This happens when you have clips playing and then you stop the song in LK stop button or if you press stop on AUM. Then as soon as you hit play again, in either play buttons, they will automatically start.

    Anyway, there was one occasion when I had an AK-808 on one track and I couldn't even turn it off by changing preset on the 808 and thus had do delete it completely but that only happened once.

    I will try to reproduce the problem as clear as possible and I'll send you the video via your mail.

    Thanks! :blush:

    Alright, I'm not sure I follow 100% but I made a video but it got a bit too big for sending with mail, but in it, two out of three instruments keep playing after all stop buttons have been pressed i.e AUMs, Main one in LK and every individual one. I will do this: I'll start over from scratch and follow your advice above. If I still get the same result I'll get back too you. Thanks.

    EDIT: Okey @sinosoidal that was it, to trigger each tr..clip once you added whatever notes to it. Now I made a very simple one bar loop with three instruments (FRMS, Phosphor and 808) and I assigned volume for each one to Controller. I just got a smile on my ugly face when LK crashed, from nowhere. I restarted AUM and got all back but that was strange. Also for such simple build the DSP was quite high as someone said above. Anyway we can forget about the hanging notes for now :smiley:

  • RajahPRajahP

    Sorry, but, how do you record into LK? I'm having a hard time recording from ATOM... Help.. Should be a simple process... but maybe it's me..

  • WhiteWhite

    @RajahP said:
    Sorry, but, how do you record into LK? I'm having a hard time recording from ATOM... Help.. Should be a simple process... but maybe it's me..

    Set Atom as midi source in LK:

    In LK set input to LK input, set the track to record and set LK to record.

    Make sure the clip is triggered and then press play in AUM

  • RajahPRajahP

    @White said:

    @RajahP said:
    Sorry, but, how do you record into LK? I'm having a hard time recording from ATOM... Help.. Should be a simple process... but maybe it's me..

    Set Atom as midi source in LK:

    In LK set input to LK input, set the track to record and set LK to record.

    Make sure the clip is triggered and then press play in AUM

    Thanks.. Guess it will take a little more practice... Getting there..

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @sinosoidal said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @sinosoidal : I love LK and have run into a few problems. When working in the piano roll, if you drag a group of notes to the left and any move before 1.1, they are lost. It would be much better if it prevented you from dragging the selection beyond the beginning or end. (It seems that notes aren’t lost if dragging past the end, fwiw, bu I am not 100% sure).

    It is not clear what you are actually doing. Please make us a video.

    I will PM you a link to a video in just a minute.

    But short version: if you select notes in the piano roll and drag left, the selected notes should stop being moved when the first note hits time 0. What happens is that if you keep dragging after the first note hits time 0, the rest of the selection keeps moving. Most piano rolls don't work that way.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @sinosoidal : I think LK is great AND I think it could benefit from a few tweaks that would make it much more convenient to use and increase productivity for a lot of users while reducing the number of questions you get asked. This post is to summarize a few things I've asked about now that I know the answers. I think most of these are issues that others have asked about or been confused. I apologize for the redundancy, but I figured it might be handy for you to have these notes in one post rather than scattered.

    • Setting for linking transport to host (or not). LK when used as an AU would benefit immensely from an option to link its transport controls to the host. Ideally this would be at the top level of the interface (accessible from the main screen) but perhaps it could be in the Settings popup). It is GREAT that you can run it without running the host's timeline. So, I don't want that lost. As it is now, there are cases where there is some ambiguity -- or where you need to start it free running, stop its transport, and then click the hosts play button to do what one wants. It would solve a few problems. It would let you arm clips to play without starting them so that they start when you hit the host play button. The current workaround requires explanation (start your clips playing while LK's transport is running then press stop then start the host) as it isn't obvious and it isn't an elegant solution. It would make recording a clip of unknown length much more convenient.
    • Option to arm a clip for for recording so that recording starts when the host transport starts.
    • Streamlining of assigning track, scene and clip triggers. Currently, you have to dive into the properties and assign each trigger manually by clicking and dragging. This is cumbersome. Since MIDI Learn seems not to be an option in the near term. Perhaps you could have some sort of 'auto-assign' options or templates that could assign everything at once according to some sensible algorithm. I'd recommend providing a few different options -- perhaps following conventions of some popular controllers -- that would make it easy for people to set things up to control LK even if they don't have a launchpad or whatever.
    • Double-tap any numeric value (such as midi channel, cc or note name) to allow text entry -- for easy precise values. Dragging is prone to being off by one.
  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @wim said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    I can trigger clips from LK’s keyboard and pads, but if I route the same MIDI notes into LK from AUM’s keyboard those notes aren’t triggering the clips. Have I misconfigured something?

    Works for me.

    Btw, I figured out what caused the problem -- there is a quirk of AUM of which I wasn't aware. If you tap on the keyboard icon in an AU instrument window's title bar, AUM sets the MIDI channel of its keyboard to the MIDI channel of that AU (if you set one). If you enable the keyboard for a different lane after that, the channel stays on the channel of the previous lane.

  • skratskrat
    • 1 for syncing with host transport. Honestly, I don’t see a use case for separate transport controls inside LK, but OK, it could stay for having that option if needed. But having simply host transport would make things much less complicated and more convenient.
  • WhiteWhite

    @skrat said:

    • 1 for syncing with host transport. Honestly, I don’t see a use case for separate transport controls inside LK, but OK, it could stay for having that option if needed. But having simply host transport would make things much less complicated and more convenient.

    +1 for the option for syncing with host transport.

  • branisbranis

    @sinosoidal said:

    @wim said:
    Suggestion: Rather than having to press shift to add a track or scene, why not just have a dimmed ⨁ button to the right of the last track and below the last scene? I'm not fond of needing two hands to get to the shift functions when I'm using one hand to hold the iPad.

    I think we have space to include a shift on each side of the transport bar. This would probably help.

    Regarding the plus to add tracks and scenes. We have seen this request a lot of times. We need to think of an easier way to do it indeed.

    This works pretty good in Gadget:

  • wimwim
    edited November 2020

    @sinosoidal said:

    @wim said:
    Suggestion: Rather than having to press shift to add a track or scene, why not just have a dimmed ⨁ button to the right of the last track and below the last scene? I'm not fond of needing two hands to get to the shift functions when I'm using one hand to hold the iPad.

    I think we have space to include a shift on each side of the transport bar. This would probably help.

    Still requires two hands, or some fancy finger gymnastics. That's not so bad when the device is sitting on a surface, but not so great when holding the device with one hand. If shift was a toggle rather than having to be held down, that would help, but visually, it's also burying something that I'm not so sure really needs to be. Just my opinion though. ;)

    Regarding the plus to add tracks and scenes. We have seen this request a lot of times. We need to think of an easier way to do it indeed.

    Thanks for listening. B)

  • DunamisDunamis

    @sinosoidal said:

    @Dunamis said:
    After the latest update in LK the DSP in AUM goes over 100% consistently when recording clips.

    And this is on the latest iPad Pro, 12.9" version, just starting out a project with one clip and one synth.

    Disappointing. :/

    Please demonstrate us your problem with a video. We can't reproduce this.

    Not sure when I'll get a chance to make a video, but it's when recording into LK with either it's own controllers (chords, keyboard, etc.) or a third party one. Again, with just one synth and one clip, when starting a project. DSP in AUM kicks up above 100% and it stutters, etc.

  • DunamisDunamis

    @Dunamis said:

    @sinosoidal said:

    @Dunamis said:
    After the latest update in LK the DSP in AUM goes over 100% consistently when recording clips.

    And this is on the latest iPad Pro, 12.9" version, just starting out a project with one clip and one synth.

    Disappointing. :/

    Please demonstrate us your problem with a video. We can't reproduce this.

    Not sure when I'll get a chance to make a video, but it's when recording into LK with either it's own controllers (chords, keyboard, etc.) or a third party one. Again, with just one synth and one clip, when starting a project. DSP in AUM kicks up above 100% and it stutters, etc.

    More details on this: Only happens when recording into a clip slot where there is no pre existing clip. If there is a clip already present, and I record into that clip, the DSP doesn’t spike up. So my guess is the DSP spike is from the new feature where it continually scolls to an undefined length when you record into an empty clip slot.

    Hopefully that’s clear. Does it every single time.

  • sinosoidalsinosoidal

    @Dunamis said:
    More details on this: Only happens when recording into a clip slot where there is no pre existing clip. If there is a clip already present, and I record into that clip, the DSP doesn’t spike up. So my guess is the DSP spike is from the new feature where it continually scolls to an undefined length when you record into an empty clip slot.

    Hopefully that’s clear. Does it every single time.

    Great! This is a lead. Which controller?

  • sinosoidalsinosoidal

    @espiegel123 said:
    @sinosoidal : I think LK is great AND I think it could benefit from a few tweaks that would make it much more convenient to use and increase productivity for a lot of users while reducing the number of questions you get asked.

    I "love" when people mention little tweaks! :blush:

    • Setting for linking transport to host (or not). LK when used as an AU would benefit immensely from an option to link its transport controls to the host. Ideally this would be at the top level of the interface (accessible from the main screen) but perhaps it could be in the Settings popup). It is GREAT that you can run it without running the host's timeline. So, I don't want that lost. As it is now, there are cases where there is some ambiguity -- or where you need to start it free running, stop its transport, and then click the hosts play button to do what one wants. It would solve a few problems. It would let you arm clips to play without starting them so that they start when you hit the host play button. The current workaround requires explanation (start your clips playing while LK's transport is running then press stop then start the host) as it isn't obvious and it isn't an elegant solution. It would make recording a clip of unknown length much more convenient.

    For me, linking with host transport means that LK will not run by itself. It will only play when host plays, it will only stop when host stops. Is this what you mean?

    • Option to arm a clip for for recording so that recording starts when the host transport starts.

    I think that if there was a transport linking function on LK, this would be the implicitly behaviour while recording a clip with undetermined length, when that option was on.

    • Streamlining of assigning track, scene and clip triggers. Currently, you have to dive into the properties and assign each trigger manually by clicking and dragging. This is cumbersome. Since MIDI Learn seems not to be an option in the near term. Perhaps you could have some sort of 'auto-assign' options or templates that could assign everything at once according to some sensible algorithm. I'd recommend providing a few different options -- perhaps following conventions of some popular controllers -- that would make it easy for people to set things up to control LK even if they don't have a launchpad or whatever.

    Regarding midi assignment, the only option is to make a general CC assignment available. I'm not keen to add features to solve a problem temporarly, that will originate other problems and requests. For instance:

    We have added midi trigger for clips. Then there was no midi trigger for stop button and scene row. We have added midi trigger for stop button and scene row, but it takes time to assign CC to each one. This will not stop here. It will only end with a generalized assignment method... which is the right thing to do but it might take some time to show up.

    My best suggestion here is to get a controller. That's why we invested in supporting them. I know it implies costs, much more than a single app. But if you want to work with LK, it will solve all your assignment problems and get you the best possible experience. This one does the job PRETTY well for its price -> https://www.thomann.de/de/akai_apc_mini.htm

    • Double-tap any numeric value (such as midi channel, cc or note name) to allow text entry -- for easy precise values. Dragging is prone to being off by one.

    This could be done.

    There is no such thing as magic. Implementing new features take time. We have been adding features like crazy in this last couple of months, working almost exclusively on LK, but we have other products to maintain and new products to develop.

    I think that right now it is time to improve stability of LK. We have been watching to a rise of the number of crashes, mostly with midi handling since we have added the support to controllers. And we still have a timming issue. I'm more interested in improving the statibility and performance of LK rather than keep adding features like crazy.

    It is also important that LK lovers like yourself help educate new comers. Most of the people doesn't know what is LK and what could be done with it. It is a complex tool and it requires a bit of time to learn the basics. Unfortunately there isn't many resources out there apart from a couple of videos. If you search on "Imaginando LK" on YouTube you can count the results with two hands.

    Increasing the number of people that uses LK helps to justify the investment in app development time. :blush:

  • sinosoidalsinosoidal

    @wim said:
    Still requires two hands, or some fancy finger gymnastics. That's not so bad when the device is sitting on a surface, but not so great when holding the device with one hand. If shift was a toggle rather than having to be held down, that would help, but visually, it's also burying something that I'm not so sure really needs to be. Just my opinion though. ;)

    Tell me more about your way of working? Usually I'm sit down when doing music and my two hands are free. What are you doing with your other hand?

    By the way, if you double tap shift it will work in toggle mode. Did you knew this one?

  • DunamisDunamis

    @sinosoidal said:

    @Dunamis said:
    More details on this: Only happens when recording into a clip slot where there is no pre existing clip. If there is a clip already present, and I record into that clip, the DSP doesn’t spike up. So my guess is the DSP spike is from the new feature where it continually scolls to an undefined length when you record into an empty clip slot.

    Hopefully that’s clear. Does it every single time.

    Great! This is a lead. Which controller?

    Any. Happened with LK’s keyboard, and also third party controllers like Fugue Machine. Like I say, seems like it has to do with trying to record a clip from an empty clip slot, rather than into a pre existing clip.

  • WhiteWhite

    @Dunamis said:

    @sinosoidal said:

    @Dunamis said:
    More details on this: Only happens when recording into a clip slot where there is no pre existing clip. If there is a clip already present, and I record into that clip, the DSP doesn’t spike up. So my guess is the DSP spike is from the new feature where it continually scolls to an undefined length when you record into an empty clip slot.

    Hopefully that’s clear. Does it every single time.

    Great! This is a lead. Which controller?

    Any. Happened with LK’s keyboard, and also third party controllers like Fugue Machine. Like I say, seems like it has to do with trying to record a clip from an empty clip slot, rather than into a pre existing clip.

    I just tried this with LK and DRC as target, I recorded from LK's keyboard into a no pre existing unlimited length clip.
    The DSP was 33-34 % while recording.

    iPad Pro 12,9"
    IOS 14.2
    LK 1.8.5 (162) beta

  • skratskrat

    @sinosoidal said:

    @wim said:
    Still requires two hands, or some fancy finger gymnastics. That's not so bad when the device is sitting on a surface, but not so great when holding the device with one hand. If shift was a toggle rather than having to be held down, that would help, but visually, it's also burying something that I'm not so sure really needs to be. Just my opinion though. ;)

    Tell me more about your way of working? Usually I'm sit down when doing music and my two hands are free. What are you doing with your other hand?

    By the way, if you double tap shift it will work in toggle mode. Did you knew this one?

    I believe I am not the only one using iPad 90% of the time while sitting / laying on couch, iPad placed on my stomach, one hand for supporting it and I use only the other hand for actual operation.
    This was actually the reason for me to switch to iPad for making music, because sitting in front of computer and using keyboard and mouse kills the creativity in me (maybe that's because my daily job is to sit in front of computer all the day...).
    Having the Ipad on the table is quite similar to sitting in front of computer, this is the position switch that relaxes me and helps to be creative.
    Couch potato operation mode is IMO the biggest advantage of iPad :smiley:

  • sinosoidalsinosoidal

    @skrat said:
    I believe I am not the only one using iPad 90% of the time while sitting / laying on couch, iPad placed on my stomach, one hand for supporting it and I use only the other hand for actual operation.
    This was actually the reason for me to switch to iPad for making music, because sitting in front of computer and using keyboard and mouse kills the creativity in me (maybe that's because my daily job is to sit in front of computer all the day...).
    Having the Ipad on the table is quite similar to sitting in front of computer, this is the position switch that relaxes me and helps to be creative.
    Couch potato operation mode is IMO the biggest advantage of iPad :smiley:

    Got it! :wink:

    Love the photo! :lol:

  • skratskrat

    @sinosoidal said:

    Got it! :wink:

    Love the photo! :lol:

    Just a side note: I am not a happy young girl, rather a grumpy middle-aged guy :D

  • KrupaKrupa
    edited November 2020

    Total off topic and I’m only posting to share the joy, of which I get a lot from this subreddit

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wtfstockphotos/

  • GrimLuckyGrimLucky

    @Krupa said:
    Total off topic and I’m only posting to share the joy, of which I get a lot from this subreddit

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wtfstockphotos/

    Might have to get the giant cat hunting pigs on a pony, you never know when you’ll need one of these 😁

  • KrupaKrupa

    @GrimLucky said:

    @Krupa said:
    Total off topic and I’m only posting to share the joy, of which I get a lot from this subreddit

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wtfstockphotos/

    Might have to get the giant cat hunting pigs on a pony, you never know when you’ll need one of these 😁

    🤣 it’s a truly remarkable resource

  • bleepbleep

    See the happy girl! “Look dad, they added Shift on the left side in the latest beta!”

    Btw, the mentioned Drambo inspiration could also be done with Shift as a two-handed operation. Slightly less elegant, but still functional (for rearranging scenes and tracks). The basic plus operation would be better to have accessible without shift; this also makes it easier to understand as a new user.

    Anyway, I agree that stability and rock solid timing should be prioritized.

  • wimwim
    edited November 2020

    @sinosoidal said:

    @wim said:
    Still requires two hands, or some fancy finger gymnastics. That's not so bad when the device is sitting on a surface, but not so great when holding the device with one hand. If shift was a toggle rather than having to be held down, that would help, but visually, it's also burying something that I'm not so sure really needs to be. Just my opinion though. ;)

    Tell me more about your way of working? Usually I'm sit down when doing music and my two hands are free. What are you doing with your other hand?

    Often I'm sitting on the couch holding the iPad with the left hand and poking in notes with the right. I'm not a thirteen year old girl, though I do play one on TV.

    By the way, if you double tap shift it will work in toggle mode. Did you knew this one?

    No! Sweet. That helps a lot.

  • sinosoidalsinosoidal

    @wim said:

    @sinosoidal said:

    @wim said:
    Still requires two hands, or some fancy finger gymnastics. That's not so bad when the device is sitting on a surface, but not so great when holding the device with one hand. If shift was a toggle rather than having to be held down, that would help, but visually, it's also burying something that I'm not so sure really needs to be. Just my opinion though. ;)

    Tell me more about your way of working? Usually I'm sit down when doing music and my two hands are free. What are you doing with your other hand?

    Often I'm sitting on the couch holding the iPad with the left hand and poking in notes with the right. I'm not a thirteen year old girl, though I play one on TV.

    By the way, if you double tap shift it will work in toggle mode. Did you knew this one?

    No! Sweet. That helps a lot.

    Thanks! It really means a lot to know about this user experience details. Usually I'm sitted in a table while doing music on the iPad. I need to do music in the couch to feel your pain! :blush:

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @sinosoidal said:

    @wim said:
    Still requires two hands, or some fancy finger gymnastics. That's not so bad when the device is sitting on a surface, but not so great when holding the device with one hand. If shift was a toggle rather than having to be held down, that would help, but visually, it's also burying something that I'm not so sure really needs to be. Just my opinion though. ;)

    Tell me more about your way of working? Usually I'm sit down when doing music and my two hands are free. What are you doing with your other hand?

    By the way, if you double tap shift it will work in toggle mode. Did you knew this one?

    I didn't know about the double-tap -- but I'd suggest that you make shift a simple single-tap toggle. Even though I used it with two hands free, I find the shift mechanism awkward. My guess is that for most people shift being a toggle would be a better user experience.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @sinosoidal : Thanks for having taken the time to read and respond to my previous comment. A couple of quick thoughts (responses in line)

    For me, linking with host transport means that LK will not run by itself. It will only play when host plays, it will only stop when host stops. Is this what you mean?

    Yes. It would be nice if that were a per-instance setting. I.e. choice of whether the instance is linked to the host transport or not. It is sometimes nice to not be linked to it.

    • Option to arm a clip for for recording so that recording starts when the host transport starts.

    I think that if there was a transport linking function on LK, this would be the implicitly behaviour while recording a clip with undetermined length, when that option was on.

    Great!

    • Streamlining of assigning track, scene and clip triggers...... SNIP SNIP SNPT

    My best suggestion here is to get a controller. That's why we invested in supporting them. I know it implies costs, much more than a single app. But if you want to work with LK, it will solve all your assignment problems and get you the best possible experience. This one does the job PRETTY well for its price -> https://www.thomann.de/de/akai_apc_mini.htm

    For many of us (particularly those of us that have a number of controllers or even just a spare old ipad that can act as a controller) purchasing yet another controller isn't an option BUT BUT BUT we could set up our existing controllers (or set up Mozaic or Streambyter scripts to remap them) to send out the same information (without whatever handshaking the controllers send out) to send the same note or CC information.

    So, how about your setting up a menu option to apply one of your hard-coded controller mappings to the project. For instance, even if I don't have a launchpad connected, let me choose Controller Map->Launchpad [giving the user a chance to pick from any of the maps you have in LK]. That would allow people to map whatever they have to some mapping that LK can apply to the project.

  • WhiteWhite

    @espiegel123 said:
    -- but I'd suggest that you make shift a simple single-tap toggle. Even though I used it with two hands free, I find the shift mechanism awkward. My guess is that for most people shift being a toggle would be a better user experience.

    +1 Making Shift a single tap toggle is a good idea 👍

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