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Comments
That's really a tough one. I don't know what's wrong with Rebirth and I'm certain that Propellerheads are going to fix the most obvious bugs if there are any. But it all boils down to Apple not letting developers charge for updates. That's the policy everyone is suffering from, except Apple.
Cheap quality apps make their hardware products more appealing. And Apple is guilty of setting those price points on the audio market with Garageband being either free on new devices or 5$ on others.
On the Mac side of things it is one of the reasons why leading developers to abandon the Mac App Store. On iOS developers can't leave, because there's no other way to sell apps other than through Apple's App Store.
I don't have a clear solution to this. Some developers might just be able to get by. Some might find an in-app purchase model that works for them. Some will diversify and make euro rack modules. And some will just drop out of the market because its not feasible for them.
But I really would not blame third party developers on this one at all. Not Propellerheads and not smaller indies.
I don't know what the case is with Propellerheads but, in any case, if a developer is knowingly selling an app that doesn't work as advertised, and is making no publicly announced commitment to fix the situation, they deserve all the criticism they get.
Considering that the big companies are likely using iOS to promote themselves, what are they gaining by making customers unhappy?
The whole iOS system that Apple has created is nothing more than a subscription service, hardware that has a limited lifespan, which seems to be ever decreasing, the software system really can only survive if it follows suit, but will this be accepted by 'professionals', that debate rages on other OS's as well. As a system used for mass entertainment well I think that the subscription model is already the norm.
I just wish props say something, they dont say they will not develop rebirth and not saying it is an end :-(
I don't even know what people are complaining about. The first post of this thread seems to be just a complaint about why Propellerheads aren't doing more pro apps. I don't think there's even anything wrong with their apps. That's why I also changed the topic of this thread, because it looks like the original poster just wanted to create some sort of negatively loaded argument for the sake of riling people up.
It's also a terrible way to get stuff fixed in case anything's wrong. Propellerheads and third party developers are alwas really interested in fixing stuff for exactly that reason.
I'm really tempted to close this thread because it's just negativity piled upon negativity for no apparent reason.
@Sebastian
if it's not possible to charge for updates> @Sebastian said:
.
Btw,Rebirth was the example here but i also don't think it's abandonned.I was speaking more generally for apps that are still in the store for sale but are known (maybe only for the die hard minority) as"broken".
Of course i TOTALLY understand that no developer wants to update his app (that he sold for a small amount anyway) literally forever without being paid but it's definitely better to pull an app in this case then to piss of customer.I guess it's way easier to destroy reputation than to build it up (a good one).
Personally, I’ve never approved of the fast pace of software — it’s really too fast. If a product has a defect, then yes it may be fixed or recalled, and in software this is far easier than recalling physical products in the field, especially at the consumer level. However, I think there’s a lot to be said about buying a physical synth and accepting it for what it is, not expecting extra features to sprout, and updates to bring it into line with things that weren’t invented when you bought it.
I understand that you have some "friends" over at Propellerhead and you're trying to prevent "negativity". But the fact remains that there's bugs that cause ReBirth to crash, yet the free apps like Figure and Take get updated regularly. This is not "negativity" as you call it. It's the truth. Some of us here are not happy with that and we're merely discussing our dissatisfaction with what we're observing. By locking this topic, you wouldn't be helping us or helping Propellerhead. If they read these forums, they should really get a better understanding of how they're viewed by their customers regarding these issues. In my opinion, that's valuable information. If I ran a software company and I made a few mistakes, I'd want to know about it and do my best to correct the situation to make my customers happy. Wouldn't you?
I've loved and still are my adventures on iPad. But recently while adding up the costs, I've decided some hardware might be a wise move again. I'm thinking of Eurorack might be a fun option to stick some money in for a while.
To me the pace of change of software, driven by hardware development is only relevant because this system breaks a lot of the software development that preceded it, making the whole system entropic by design, even to the point when software is released still in the state of testing, all brought about by the 'download' delivery format. This in turn has fostered the ethos that software must be updated, upgraded constantly, an evolving entropy.
Same boat, same reasoning, but I've already bought into this subscription model.
I think these discussions are useful if only to try to understand what iOS music-making is and what the expectations should be. The expectations tend to not match the reality. The iOS devices are not designed by Apple as “Pro” music products, and that’s reflected in the way the App Store works. I enjoy what does work. I get frustrated when things don’t work as hyped, but bottom line - it’s a fun, low cost solution to making music in any comfortable setting. Just do what can be done and roll with the punches. Don’t bank your business on it.
The future for music production on mobile devices seems fantastic. Threads like this just show we’re not there yet.
Rebirth still plays for me in Audiobus and I'm running an iPad Air 2 using the most recent iOS and Audiobus updates.
Sometimes i wish we would get just every 4-6 or so years a new device and big updates. So developers have time to catch up.
It worked (and still works) with gaming consoles.
Yeah, in the past everything was better..... woah, i sound like my grandpa
I understand and agree with most of your thoughts on this thread. AND have found it useful overall, both sides of the coin and so forth, but, to paraphrase, when I hear the word pivot these days I reach for my revolver...
Seems like the approach they took with Figure was to turn it into a potential entry point for Reason, to lead people to the website, and to even turn the whole experience into a social one. Doesn't have any appeal to me, but I don't have a problem with what they've done. Figure is still a nifty little app, and is still maintained.
Apple also undermines developers' work with the iOS updates, which seem to break apps more often than not. Think about that. You create a product, then a company comes along and renders it useless in one way or another, forcing you to invest more time and energy into fixing it. Yeah I realize Apple probably has themselves covered legally on this one, but in the end that's what's happening.
Thing is Apple sell hardware, lots of hardware, I don't think the 4-6 year cycle would rattle their coffers, well not until they invest that mountain of money they have, in the iCar, then we'll end up a niche, within a niche......
Seb......Maybe a good idea to close the thread..... The children are getting restless, & need to rest. Tomorrow's another day mate. I understand what they are saying, but what can you do?..... Make the most of what you have, & enjoy what you are doing........ But mostly, have have fun in what you do with the technology of what you are using now.
Thread closed for nap time?
No offense, but please don't assign motive to my posting.
My posting is as straight forward as any other comment by any other person about any app or company.
I have no friends or associates at the company, so my opinions are just that. It its merely based on my user experience. I backed it up with specific reasons why.
And it seems many people agree with me. I would think a company would want to know what the folks are thinking?
I am have no abilities to "make people think or post anything". I am flattered that you feel that I would even attempt it though.
Thanks
Well, Apple, Google and Samsung (or just 'mobile') are forcing every company that relied on desktop or laptops to be a viable platform to rethink their business model. The drive to mobile turns every old school software company into a startup.
It wouldn't be so bad if Apple spent more time on ensuring quality of their software. They do have the monetary resources for it, they're just not spending them. I'm certain most of Apple's engineers are doing their best, but it's just not enough.
But if we're honest: a new device (class) every year is probably the last thing anyone on this planet needs, especially from an environmental point of view.
If someone came up to you and called you stupid, incompetent or oblivious to your job to your face and then demanded they help you get something that you want... would you react to that?
Every software - including apps - crashes sometimes.
Let me say it again: All. Apps. Crash.
If you find a crash and you want it to be fixed, contact the developer. 98 times out of 100 it will be fixed. Trying to shame someone into fixing something on a public forum without them doing anything wrong in the first place is not going to get the job done.
None taken.
I just had a thought:
Since none of the other manufacturers make any money with mobile devices and Google only makes some money with Android, there really is very little reason to keep putting out a new device every year other than to make Apple shareholders happy.
Apple already has 200billion in cash and they're making more and more and they're not spending it.
This whole thing makes me feel like we have to deal with yearly updates because someone at Apple really likes pointlessly large numbers.
PPS: It looks like every large company is hoarding cash and not doing anything with it . That to me shows how there's really no reason to assume that large/leading companies have the customer's best interest in mind but instead are preparing for an uncertain future.
Investing into customer satisfaction is clearly less important to them than making sure they survive the next decade(?) of disruption.
And it also shows that there's nothing left to invest into anymore. It's an open admission that we're at the end of innovation based growth and are now at the point of repeating our tried and tested recipes like iPhone 7, the second reboot of the Spiderman franchise, Fast and Furious 8 (or 9?)... and Audiobus 3.
@sebastion, at least if, when, Audiobus 3 comes out , it will work, and it will contain features requested by users along with some other unheard of innovations, which keep you guys at the head of YOUR game. If other companies operated how AB operates, I think the iOS community would be a happier place. Well done to you and your team for your communication with us and your continued product development.
Customer satisfaction isn't important and a lack of innovation? Isn't that pretty much what the original poster said about Propellorhead?
Every type of 'marketplace' is being modernised and adapted, some faster some slower and some just plainly refuse to accept the changes, some are very stubborn and fight with claws against technological changes, look at how the internet has changed the television/movie/music industry but yet the 'oldies' defend the old business model with claws refusing to accept the change. Sure we have the legal aspects as every country defends their own rules, but that's politics, not technology.
Apples business model isn't 'perfect' and IAP's seem to be a way to get at least a little revenue for the investment, don't know how much the TF7 developer gets but the idea of extra features via IAP's is a pretty smart move, same is applied by Korg, Steinberg, Wavemachinelabs/Auria and a few others.
I bit the sour apple and checked how much I've spent on music related software (iOS and Desktop) over the years and it's closer to $2000 where iOS is more than 50% of it all. The desktop software is already obsolete as no OS can run them (ok emulation works but it's not practical in the long run). Many of the early iOS apps would probably work if they were recompiled. (I think this is where Apples byte-code comes to play where apps are optimised and recompiled for the target device/OS on delivery).
I tend to see IAP's as an opportunity to mimic the 'shareware concept' and some manage to implement it well.
Personally I'd have no problem to every now and then 'donate' a few IAPs in the apps i use frequently.
I'm not complaining but 'false advertising' and 'broken promises' are something I have a hard time to accept.
(I'm still waiting for the promised update to UVI's BeatHawk, it's been more than 6 months now).
If a developer decides to 'drop the support' they can leave the app in the App Store but change the description to show that it's no longer being supported/maintained and just be happy if some user dumps some cash for it.
I'm nowadays a little hesitant to buy apps that have not been updated within the last 6 months.
Even Apple can't sit on their laurels forever any one remember Palm and Nokia?
I’m going to guess that developers such as Propellerhead are not seeing the return on investment they originally hoped for with iOS development. At one time you could count on some shiny new thing from Propellerhead zooming up the charts and staying there for a while. The same applies to the likes of Fingerlab and several other slightly smaller yet established developers. New updates and updates seem fewer and far between. The large companies such as Korg and Animoog have other revenue streams so it likely doesn’t quite matter as much if iOS titles are successful or not. They are very much loss leaders for these companies to help maintain the overall mind space of their brands.
I have also noticed many indie developers who buoyed by their initial success releasing iOS music apps only to see their sales dwindle over time despite rave reviews and endorsements on sites like the AB forum. When you you see an app jump up into the top 100 on the US store, this might be aa result of a single sale. I am pretty certain the smaller and medium sized developers are struggling which in turn means you may not see more frequent updates or new titles being developed by these iOS innovators.
Now that Apple is beginning to experience slower growth, they may want to consider developing new strategies that will encourage continued iOS development in niche markets such as music.
This is a reasonable statement, but do devs not know this is the way the business works going in? Yet they provide us with tantalizing tools for mobile devices, with the ultimate goal of attracting buyers to their desktop products, from what I'm reading... I rather believe that mobile devices are the important new destination and that it might behoove devs to treat it as such, instead of as toy interactive billboards for stuff I don't want on a platform I'm not going to use for it.
Are serious music producers really going away from desktops to iOS devices? Where does this information come from? I’m sure large numbers of consumers are attracted to phones and tablets, and all the inexpensive apps, but they don’t replace music systems on Macs and PCs.
Seems to me that the pro music software companies are going to continue to sell to pro musicians, and the iOS market is not their market. They use iOS for promotion and with limited resources allocated for it. Pro music production may be headed towards tablet-type touch devices, but not Apple’s mobile devices, unless Apple decides it wants that market and changes to accommodate it.