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Comments
What matters to you in life? Why do you do what you do?
More importantly, do you have GRATITUDE for what have? More specifically, Gratitude for the opportunities you have in life? I would also have PATIENCE. I would have HUMILITY.
Many of us have felt the pain of crippling financial situations and inabilities to earn an income. Many people can't get work.
If I were a person who is so fortunate to be a critical part of a huge movement, a technological and musical one at that- I would be so humble and grateful. Including to Apple, my product, and my customers.
I would also present that image to the public.
Yet, the belly aching continues.
Yes, models and updates happen. Guess what? They do in everything.
Fashion, beer, cars, homes, and yes operation systems and devices. Fashion week, seasons, sizes, always changing. People still innovate. Guess what, people don't stop making new things, taking losses, sometimes for years until the something happens. Then it is all worth it one day.
The people who press on are the ones who are their in the end. Selling and making things isn't a government job, but the rewards in the end are worth it. Just like making music.
Capitalism will run its course. App markets will correct themselves and the landscape will be vastly different a year from now.
Perhaps, if the "love fest" of not "criticizing" other apps and such niceties was limited, the shit apps would more quickly go extinct.
Unfortunately, too many people want to give glowing reviews and only say nice things on forums online. Meanwhile, reality of how people feel goes on.
Anyway, I mean this in the most heartfelt and respectable way. Honestly, I do.
Hope this doesn't get "edited" or deleted.
Much Love.
I'm no mind reader so I can't say why people write the reviews they do or make the comments they do on online forums.
It certainly seems possible that people may not share your values or have the same expectations about the apps or issues as you do so they may indeed hold and express different feelings and thoughts about them too.
@RustiK I'm a little confused by your post, there may be sarcasm I missed or I just missed it all- are you saying that all opinions should be expressed which makes all of it better or are you saying people should stop complaining about apps? I'm not arguing, I just am not sure I understood your post and would like to.
My life's been pretty non musically busy lately so I haven't been very creative (happens in the winter it seems), but I've found that I personally do better with a smaller amount of tools. I haven't even tried link yet, just haven't been in a "discovering" mood lately.
Propellerheads apps don't bother me, they just don't fit what I do. Thor is cool, but I'm finding myself not using synths lately, even very minimally live. Been playing lots of bass though. As I said, there was a point in time where I would have loved reason on iPad but now I'm just trying to use what I have and not look for more ways to not finish a song...;-)
Unless the government forces them to, where on earth is someone selling a product with the message, "We're sorry, this thing we're selling is not a priority product for us, and here's a list of things you might not like about it." Come on. You gotta have a laugh at that.
These iPad apps ported from the desktop are dirt cheap compared to what the company gets for them. They're really like trial apps that expose the iOS user to the full-fledged application. Have fun, play around with it, and if you're ready, move up to what we're really selling.
What should not happen, though, is for devs to sell products that clearly don't work as advertised. However, what exactly doesn't work, and who isn't it working for? The Apple system is quicksand, and there's often more than one app involved having to work together, so it's not necessarily that easy for a dev to say what doesn't work on what combination of factors.
I wonder how well iOS has worked out for these devs as a platform for promotion. If the app isn't working for a lot of customers, and you're not going to fix it, do yourself and everyone a favor and pull it. Other than that, it's up to the buyer to know what they're buying. That's why we have reviews and forums, etc. where people can get educated.
I haven't had any problems with Thor myself. If the majorty don't have a problem then there's no reason for a developer to pull a product or any such drastic measure.
I think it's amazing that someone like Rim responds to every single user, but it's unreasonable to expect this from every developer. Especially if the product is not making them any money.
Remember what happened when your hardware synth had a problem out of warranty? That's right you had to pay good money to get it fixed. And if the maker went bankrupt you were out of luck.
The iOS platform has been a good experience for me. Every platform has issues and I've generally had a smoother run on iOS than with hardware and on the Mac, though years of experience with those platforms have helped with quick problem solving.
All that being said I think complaints come with territory. Users should be allowed to have their say. I'd hate to see this site just become a 'sell' site without criticism. Let people have their say. It's up to the developers then to respond (or not) as they see fit.
True, but if something like Rim's attitude towards his customers becomes the norm, it means the world is changing for the better. And I would be infinitely happy for that and I think companies, specially sw, should really head into that direction
IMO there's really only two business models that viable on the app store: one is to have lots of marketing money and promote your product the old-fashioned way, with advertising and endorsements (the IK Multimedia approach), and the other is to build a rapport with your user base and create a sense of community and loyalty. Rim is taking the second approach.
There is of course a third way to become successful, which is to hope for some blind luck, maybe get featured on the app store, shown on TV etc... But you can't plan for those kinds of events, they're like winning the lottery.
I think of lot of devs release their apps without a real marketing strategy, hoping to get lucky in the crap shoot of the app store. But if you don't have a lot of money to promote your product you really need to interact with your user base, listen to them, and most of all release a great product and keep improving it. I think that a lot of indie devs just don't put enough effort and thinking into their marketing, or realise that interacting with users is the best form of marketing they have.
@Paul
I must respectfully disagree with your point about Devs that are struggling to make their apps reliable with the latest iOS or hardware. It's easy enough to change '7 and above' to whatever it is the software was designed to work with.
Let's be frank here, I just expect my apps to work the majority of the time. My expectations are hardly outrageous. Look at the fault I described with Stroke Machine. If I had a hardware device that stopped working any time I touched areas between the knobs, I would be reasonable in calling it faulty and not fit for sale.
How are my expectations unreasonable. Yes I have a lot of apps. Due to illness, I also have a lot of time to use my iPad and said apps. I also have not bought all my apps in sales. £200 is not that many apps to be unhappy with out of £1000 plus. My expectations are grounded and have often written on this site how good we have it with iOS.
My observation is that there are many apps that have descriptions that make it difficult to make an informed buying decision, not all. We are all aware of the App Store economics, but just because it is a hard market, my expectations of more clarity are still not unreasonable.
The level of product support I require by companies answering my emails, have been met by most on iOS and have been exceeded by many. I have also written on here praising those Devs many times. Again I respectfully disagree that my expectations are unreasonable.
Let's be honest. The review process is broken. How people make reviews is broken. Human nature affects how we process worth. App Store reviews are often just a knee jerk initial reaction to ones pleasure or displeasure and rarely balanced. Shame reviews are so important to sales prospects on the App Store.
I still REALLY want Reason for iOS!
:-)
I saw a video doing that with Parallels, but you will still need a computer to run it.
They're not just broken because of that but because developers cannot react to them.
Hmmmmm
When you go into a supermarket you will normally see at least 3 types of carrots. They will be branded along the lines of Extra Special, Regular, Budget
If you buy the Budget brand you accept that you will have to clean and peel them yourself and trim them to be the same size and will have to throw some away as they are too small or twisted.
If you buy the Regular brand, you are prepared to put a little work into cleaning them but won't have to throw as many away or trim them as much.
If you buy the extra special brand, you just want to put them in the pan and cook them.
The reason the Extra Special brand is so much more expensive than the Budget brand is all the work and investment into infrastructure needed to grow and select and inspect, clean and package the 'matching' carrots, doing the work that you are not wanting to do yourself. whereas with the Budget brand the grower can just drop them off at the supermarket door.
It is exactly the same for music production equipment, if you want something that is high quality then you have to pay for it,
To relate to the carrots above, Custom PC's with dedicated DSP and lots of high end outboard gear would be akin to the Extra Special carrots.
Consumer PC's with budget outboard gear would be akin to the Regular carrots
iOS is the Budget carrots.
It is the way it is, and it will stay that way until there is a enough return for the people within the 'infrastructure' for it to be viable.
That return will not come until consumers are prepared to pay the cost for it.
Consumers will not be prepared to make the investment unless there is some longevity to their investment.
The longevity will not come until there is stability in the underlying platform.
Although some if not most are willing, investing £500+ in an app to run on an iPad, knowing that future compatibility with OS upgrades could not be guaranteed would be foolhardy.
P.S. I am enjoying my iOS music making, and want to thank everyone, dev's and forum members alike for making it a mostly pleasureable experience.
I just have to remind myself from time to time when something goes wrong or is difficult, that I COULD have paid 10 times what I did to be in the same position.
EDIT: The comparison I use here as iOS to Budget is aimed at iOS as a platform for music making and not at the developers who work in the iOS environment.
Some of developers I have encountered in the iOS world are in the Extra Special brand in relation to the world of developers in general
@AndyPlankton
Nicely cooked up there Andy. Thing is I still shop the old fashioned way e.g. Actually going to the store. I can see the carrots and make an informed decision if the budget carrots are going to be good enough for my special gravy
Ahh yes, you can check the outside, but until you cut into it, you do not know what is on the inside
With regard to reviews
When you complete a survey of the type, On a scale of 1 to 5 How crispy was this bacon ? The people looking at the results are only looking for scores of 1-2 (maybe only 1's even), anything else is ok, because you at least determined the bacon was crispy.
Use this same philosophy with reviews, look at the negative ones to see what perceived problems people are talking about.
You don't need to read positive reviews as you are already interested in the product, otherwise you wouldn't be reading the review in the first place.
Haha that made me laugh. I always wondered why people stared when I break the carrots up to test them
I'm so old fashioned. I worked in a fishing tackle shop as a kid. We used to sell stuff individually to start with. You could buy what you wanted. No packaging. You wanted 10 ft of something....we would sell you it. Then along came packaging, multiples and lack of choice. Now where's my pipe and slippers
If I offer it to the cat, and the cat turns it's nose up at it, I know it's not for me !
I've not been fishing for almost 20 years, not since I caught a 21lb mirror and didn't know what to do with it on the bank
I know what you mean about buying just the bits you want with no 'fluff'
I remember white paper bags in the sweet shop, and brown paper bags at the green grocer. None of this we will sell you a plastic bag with our name on it so you can put all the other plastic containers you just bought in it and advertise OUR shop at YOUR expense and you feel like you have no choice because the government says we have to charge for plastic bags (Shhhh we could give you free paper ones but we'll keep that quiet) BS
@Fruitbat1919 I never said your expectations of developers is outrageous, I just think they're out of sync with the level of commitment some developers have. Based upon your comments it seems that roughly 20% of the apps you've purchased fall into that category. It would be nice if developers would state exactly the status of their apps, but for a multitude of reasons I don't believe this will happen any more frequently than it does now. The iOS music ecosystem just isn't supportive of that level of commitment at this time. In a few years with more powerful devices and a focus on the latest and greatest software rather than hardware, there will be more commitment from developers and the expectations of users in general will increase too.
@Fruitbat1919
Are these the pipe and slippers you seek
I could never sport that beard, but hey wasn't he great
i dont mean to propogate a "love fest" but just a few years ago I started in mobile with this and it cost as much as my first and second ipad.
I am super stoked with where things are going...
I wanted one of those..... Got the app instead and almost never use it. Glad I didn't shell out for the hardware one
It was great as a midi controller. I still use the app for midi.
ROFL
I have to disagree with you. Whenever people start using analogies in these discussions, they're merely what you perceive them to be. These analogies are way off base when you don't mention other platforms as well as other apps and other types of mobile devices. iOS devices are far more expensive than other tablets, and so are the apps. Furthermore, comparing an iOS device and it's apps with a PC and it's apps is like comparing apples and oranges. Therefore, I can't say your analogy is complete or correct.
This is true, and I also failed to mention any form of music production that doesn't involve a computer, of which there are many. My analogy was based on the fact that most people here compare iOS to Desktop. And in fact the op was comparing the desktop and iOS activities of one particular developer. Everything has to be taken within the context that it was meant.
Edit, wrong thread.
Could you tell me what these other cheaper tablets and apps that are better for music production than an iOS device are? I’d be interested in buying something cheaper and better.
The analogy makes its point. You get what you pay for. Developers are going to put into their product what they can get back. Of course there are some devs who put in way more than they get back (money) because they just love making and maintaining their apps, but this is not a model for real world commerce. Devs with names we all grew up with, like Korg, Roland, Moog, etc… can’t operate as simply charitable organizations or enthusiastic hobbyists. They have a bottom line, and if one of their iOS apps isn’t getting the attention you think it deserves, it’s because the company can’t justify the cost of resources to fix every little issue that someone might have, or hold their hand in dealing with it. That’s the way it is, like it or not.
Whew! After skimming the 5+ pages, here are my thoughts....There is nothing wrong with charging for a major upgrade. Audulus did it right. They publicized things well. Audulus 2 was depreciated and eventually removed from the store for purchase several weeks before Audulus 3 came out. When Audulus 3 came out, it was a new purchase. That's what has to be done by developers. Auria Pro did something very similar. There can be variations to the formula, but the point is the same: Provide minor updates to the current version, and charge for the major updates--treat them as a new version. As long as the app gives users what they want, people will pay for the continued development. Those who don't like it don't have to buy it. I don't see what's wrong with this.....