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us-reinstates-death-penalty
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@supadom said
‘If we are to further evolve as a society we must look at the root of the problem which is (drum roll), you’ve guessed it, money distribution.’
True, but this really can only be resolved on a global scale. The powerful make use of different economic systems in nations to protect and grossly expand their wealth and power.
supadom wrote: " those on the receiving side got to that point for no fault of their own "
Mmm... isn't that the definition of an innocent murder victim?
not so fast...you know the punishment for aiding and abetting an enemy of the state is death right because that's how being a traitor works lol
revenge murder= thumbs down
self defense murder= thumbs up
and no, I'm not talking about that first I stalk you, then stand my ground malarky ho ho ho
Good night John boy
I loosely agree, but still the burden of acting in self defence is not something that most people would carry, with any degree of comfort or ease.
I don’t think it’s ever going to be ‘fair’ on the victims either way.
Guess it comes down to whether you believe in ‘an eye for an eye’. I don’t. I think we have to take the moral high ground when it comes to punishment. But I know that’s not everyone’s opinion.
Matt wrote: "I don’t think it’s ever going to be ‘fair’ on the victims either way."
Yes, some truth in that.
The ineresting thing in the documentary on the criminals on death row was that the victim's families often talked about "fairness" and it not being fair that their loved one was killed and won't get to live their life and yet the murderer gets to live.
The issue of fairness seemed to be important to them. I don't think they talked about justice or "the law" or revenge or "hate of the killer" much but fiairness kept coming up.
Thanks to all for making this thread readable and a decent example of civil discourse. I, of course, have my own inflammatory opinions.
Empathy to the maltreated (some fine people on both sides!) but the real value IMO is the mental process folks are willing to make an effort with to try and understand things at a deeper level. Naturally, we promote our own vaunted opinions but some of us manage to keep an open mind (not me) and thereby have the opportunity to truly grow. Kudos if you are one of those rare bags of blood and guts.
As a species we are incredibly and inexorably myopic. We can bemoan injustice when our entire lives are fabricated upon injustice... from the way we treat fellow species, to the animal food we eat, to the submission to the viciously cycled whims of the media, to the oppression of world religions, the horrors of war and corporate culture and on and on. Injustice is our substrate. It is the agar agar on which we flourish. If we can accept that then there is the possibility for reason without amygdallic urges one way or t’other. Of course, no one will listen, but for individual evolution, IMO, nothing can beat it,
Part of the acceptance is the radical idea that everyone does the best he/she can. Even murderers. This is not my own conjecture, but espoused by extremist vedantists like Byron Katy and others. I am not saying those who are harmful to human life should not be restrained, but that the judgements of “good” and “bad” by each individual be examined by him/her with the tools he/she has at hand. To be a slave to what our parents taught us, or what our teachers, religious leaders or governments teach us... and even our own conclusions, is just that... slavery of the mind, whether imposed by others or by our own, fearful, (un)consciousness.
I am Spartacus!
If you’re parents had decided to kill you before you were born, would they not have taken away from you the choice of ‘it’s my body and I have the right to choose’
Max wrote: " what about my right to life? dont you think so too, guys??? "
God almighty Max - do you get off on this stuff?
Why not throw in Trump is Hitler, Hilary is a child molester, Walt Disney shot JFK, Lego gives you cancer, and the Cookie Monster likes anal sex.
Is "pointless controversy" your middle name? :-)
OK, I'll take the bait.... you defend murderers from death but want to kill unborn babies. Happy?
Political panto. Gosh, gee. I wish I could be a woke political rebel too...
this totally out of frame
so I'm a guy, or I will be
and I'm hoping no one decides what to do with my life and my body ...
its my life and I can do as I please (I hope) because this is a free society
but I'm in the womb
and some guy called Max wants to terminate me
if he wants an abortion it is not fine with me
being a fetus is risky business, I could die from all kinds of medical procedures
what about my right to life?
dont you think so too, guys???
Sorry... couldn't help myself.
Here's a fun game. Imagine this text being spoken by Rick in the UK TV show "The Young Ones":
this totally out of frame
so we are all guys, imagine you could give birth to a child.
no one decides for me what to do with my life and my body ...
its my life and I can do as I please because this is a free society
and there are enough unwanted and beat children already.
if I want a child, fine
if I want an abortion, fine
beeing pregnet is risky business, I could die from all kinds of complications
what about my right to life?
dont you think so too, guys???
Hilarious (you have to know Rick to enjoy the game).
It is just so Rick.
Max, what you and your friend do is none of my business.
Your text read like a cut and paste job from a pro choice manual. What surprised me was the gushing exortation at the end "dont you think so too, guys???"
Before anyone gets the idea that I am a staunch pro lifer, I actually don't a have a single position on abortion.
WillieNegus wrote: "Case and point, my latest toy 😍...."
Good to see a fellow Marxist on the forum.
Perhaps. I’ll have to get back to you on that when I find out exactly what it means.lol
America is never short on conflict...plenty of things to make music about
Max wrote:
" meh, thats how it happened.
seems like its not an exotic thing to happen, lol
but it was an important moment for me, I remember it like it was yesterday.
Im just trying to explain my train of thoughts"
Fair enough.
I think what got me was that it was about a serious subject with a kind of "football team's fan rah-rah-rah" exortation at the end. A kind of "OK guys, time to eat, who wants pizza? Let's go! Everybody in my car!" vibe.
But of course, I don't know you or how you speak.
The abortion debate fascinates me. There are strong and undeniable arguments on both sides.
I am always amazed when I read thoses news reports about pro life people who shoot and kill a doctor or worker at a clinic. Always smacks of a bit of an own goal.
Word!👌🏾
IMO It’s not all about how you think/feel as much as it is about how and what that inspires you to do.
My biggest problem with it: no take backs. So many have been wrongfully convicted and later freed. Our system in the US is not accurate enough for such finality.
Yes I agree the Vegas shooter is not a questionable case. That guy did it. And it was heinous.
But who gets to draw that line of certainty? Our political parties that rotate in power have entirely different understandings of the world. What is certain enough?
Benjamin Franklin:
It is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer.
@Max23 said:
this totally out of frame
so we are all guys, imagine you could give birth to a child.
no one decides for me what to do with my life and my body ...
its my life and I can do as I please because this is a free society
and there are enough unwanted and beat children already.
if I want a child, fine
if I want an abortion, fine
Being pregnet is risky business, I could die from all kinds of complications
what about my right to life?
dont you think so too, guys???
Max, thanks for your reply. I am not surprised to hear this. Your view is a widely adopted perspective, which is also deeply felt and strongly held conviction as it touches the most personal part of us.
So I don’t expect to change your mind, but I hope you can see my perspective. If we are to value pre-born humanity with the same fervency and compassion as we value any other segment of oppressed in our world, then the same rules will need to apply.
It is simply not within any human’s right to determine whether another human can take their next breath (or their first).
Anyone who can’t agree with that statement has to either decide:
Slavery, the holocaust, wars, unethical pharmaceutical testing, abortion... it all comes from the same decision ultimately.
Why do people make that decision? Supadom was right: it is about wealth.
I imagine most readers here are convinced that pro-choice women rights is the most ethical conclusion. My question for you: who would want you to believe that a fetus’ life is either not worth living or not actually human?
Do the research yourself but guaranteed, without any question abortion is a massively lucrative business as ugly and sickening as american war spending or any other oppressive global endeavor.
My Original post:
marmakin wrote: " But who gets to draw that line of certainty?"
The same people who have to be certain enough to put the killer in jail: a court.
With most of those mass killings the identity of the killer is not in question. There are so many witnesses and CCT video footage that there is no doubt who did it. The N.Z. killer even live streamed himself murdering innocent, elderly people.
I don't think there are any cases of modern day mass killings where the police don't know who did the killing.