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The Greenwood Massacre Centennial
I know there are some here that resent a white guy talking about this event... as was pointed out to me on the Derek Chauvin verdict thread I posted a while back. And I did think of keeping quiet about it and hoped someone else would acknowledge it.
However, that did not happen... and since another white guy, Joe Biden, did memorialize it yesterday in Tulsa, I don't think i can make the “appropriation” much worse.
In 1921 over 300 Americans were killed (the actual number is not known) hundreds of houses incinerated, many from fire bombs hurled from private aircraft, and 10,000 people displaced. Greenwood was called “Black Wall Street” and white supremacist hatred and jealousy literally burnt a prosperous community to the ground,
I will not give any further opinion about this. Just respecting the memory of my fellow citizens. Not all sacrifices are on the battlefield.
This is off topic, but still some might think it inappropriate. I can only say that music is about feeling, something that can be neglected in its technical pursuit. I think of ABF as a place to express one’s feelings, in a civil way, not just about music but in matters of the heart as well. This forum is special, IMO, because of its forbearance and tolerance of such feelings.
Comments
I’m not going to comment on the horrific mass murders committed in Oklahoma 100 years ago since I’m not a historian and I haven’t enough familiarity with what happened, but tying that terrible sounding event to present day legal wrangling over voting laws is not remotely the same.
When it comes to voting laws, the fact of the matter is the dominant party in a city or state does everything they can to benefit their side. This is true of both sides, regardless of party (I live in a State in which an unpopular governor is currently being recalled and he is bribing voters with their own tax money in an attempt to throw the recall election).
And it is also true that 99 times out of 100 these ”unfair” rules are not illegal because there is wide latitude for states and cities to limit or expand access to voting and the reasons for doing so might be as benign as budgetary restraints or as pernicious as a local party leader attempting to squash competition.
@NeuM. I respect your point of view and you make valid points. I am deleting my comments re my perceived assault on democratic principles. Not because I don’t believe it is occurring, but because it muddies the waters as to recognition of this event.
Thank you. I also have terrific respect for your point of view and find your comments genuine and heartfelt.
Well said.
I'm no expert in regards to American history but due to 'culture'
I'm aware of many such "incidents" which are not only beholden to the U.S.
Quite a few of these "incidents" have happened less than a hundred years ago.
I'm not looking at the wrangling over voters rights in the U.S
we've got enough issues here in the U.K.
I'm merely looking at history at large and how certain things haven't changed.
I also have lived long enough to see how many other things have changed
so as far as I'm concerned you have every right to state your perspective
and in that regards thank you.
Maybe you should familiarize yourself with what happened. Understanding history is critical to understanding the present. The systemic racism that allowed the massacre to happen is still at play in the U.S.
I had a feeling you’d soon appear here to lecture me. To be completely honest with you, I don’t appreciate the tone of your post.
@espiegel123 and @NeuM. Please, I think any disrespect is unintentional. “Tone”, as we all know, is definitely dicey when writing.
It’s OK, LL. Espiegel has been attacking my point of view on the Bitcoin thread for some time and I think he just generally doesn’t like me. Nothing I can do about that since all I can offer is my point of view. (Shrug)
Amazing how quickly you make yourself the victim in a thread about an actual historical atrocity. Maybe sit this one out.
Michael, I appreciate your highlighting this. Your willingness to so readily confront a buried past is honestly inspiring. You have more "lived experience" (as the current parlance insists) than many on this forum, and I never cease to be amazed by your ability to examine something with new eyes. It's uncomfortable and it's necessary. And you can never put a foot wrong when you address injustice. So, thanks.
For those interested in learning about it, this New York Times multimedia presentation is remarkable.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/24/us/tulsa-race-massacre.html?searchResultPosition=3
And for the sci-fi fan here, it's kind of mindblowing how astutely the recent HBO series "The Watchmen" predicted our current moment. THAT was the first time I ever heard about the massacre, so I by NO means claim to be an expert.
You have a history of making personal attacks on this site and that’s easily verified with a simple review of your comments.
It's only in recent years that I started learning about the horrors of the Reconstruction and the civil rights struggle in the US. The dark underbelly of history is often hidden, that's not unique to America though - there are similar issues here in the UK, where some people only want to glorify Britain's past and ignore all the atrocities committed in the name of Empire, all over the world but also closer to home in Ireland and Scotland.
History has many facets, Wounded Knee and the Irish Potato Famine are just as historical as the Bill of Rights or Magna Carta. A fair look at history would encompass both the good and the bad.
Not only glorify but some try to rewrite history.
Again well said.
As a person with mixed ancestry I have no problem noting US history (and world history) is littered with examples of people in power exercising undue authority over others, and yes, this even includes the native population and various tribal conflicts and capturing other tribe members as slaves. This is all basically the all too common story of human existence. The strong overpower the weak and outnumbered. Thankfully, in the US of today individual freedoms and protected rights have never been stronger, despite the onslaught of bad news which continuously asserts the opposite.
“For my part, I consider that it will be found much better by all parties to leave the past to history, especially as I propose to write that history myself.” —Winston Churchill
Sure, I agree with that. But it's not only people in power, the Tulsa Massacre was carried out by mostly what we would call "ordinary people", not by government forces. The authorities decided to turn a blind eye and were complicit, but many of the crimes were commited by regular people.
And of course it goes without saying that the victims should have enjoyed all of the protection of the Bill of Rights, but were denied it because it was selectively enforced, and they were deemed to be the wrong sort of people. What's to stop that situation from happening again?
What’s to stop it from happening again? People at all levels in the US need to be informed about the Constitution and Bill of Rights and that has not been the case in the last 50 years. The schools don’t do it and the politicians don’t do it, so it’s up to individuals to inform themselves so they can constantly demand their constitutionally protected rights, not ask for them.
And surely it must also be enforced evenly as well, offering the same protections to all people, regardless of race, religion etc...
Thank you for the "re-education"?
I know the quote.
I have a whole CD of Winston Churchill speeches.
I sampled it for a soundtrack decades ago.
One day I may share it.
Acknowledging that certain historical events
have affected our "now" is important.
To affect positive change and to reduce
the "bigger stick" mentally one must acknowledge
the darker sides of humanity.
How else are we going to do that except via history
and recounting such stories.
That's the reason why we have them.
It's not okay to simply 'forgive and forget' when
the people who have committed the atrocities have forgotten and
the people who had the atrocities committed against them have not.
If we simply say 'well that happened then' we are accepting
that if you have the bigger stick all is okay.
If we acknowledge these incidents and change our behaviour
as a species for the better then that's called evolution.
If we do otherwise then as far as I'm concerned it's called "regression".
I guess the point is that it takes more than fancy words on a legal document, the laws have to be applied to everyone, not just to a select in-group of favoured people.
For example Thomas Jefferson wrote these fine words on the Declaration of Independence in 1776:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
But while he wrote that "all men are created equal", he also owned slaves by the dozen. The fine words don't match the reality, and this dichotomy has haunted US history for the past 250 years.
The UK is no better of course.
Agreed.
There's a conflict between the actual history and the core values of a country.
The history that gets approved is one that services the needs of the people currently in power.
The effort to tell the stories of US History is currently a point of political debate with left
vs right using their power and influence to tell the story.
Personally, I feel one side wants to tell an accurate story while the other wants to perpetuate
a set of stories that give them comfort.
How the Civil War happened and who the heroes are is an example. It makes me recall a playground game my schoolmates played in 1956. It was called Rebs or Yanks. At the time of the game we were all in Hawaii on a US Marine Core Base in Kaneohe on Oahu. I didn't understand how the game worked... a kid grabbed me by the T Shirt and asked "Reb or Yank"? His other hand was miming the holding of a knife. I thought... which are you because
I never took a side. I grew up in California and we didn't take a role in that conflict. So, I had no connection to either Army. The kid looked at me and just moved on to find another one of the "other" that needed to be killed.
The core of these conflicts come out of power and fear of losing it.
The most sane society I can see in the modern world is Singapore that has very solid guidelines around diversity, egalitarian polices and providing opportunities for most citizens.
If you hear some one pointing out the problems with another group, you'll see the roots of conflict. The only test that works for me is the substitution game: switch positions in any conflict and see if power is being leveraged and abused.
Obviously, sweeping through a community and killing everyone you see is the most extreme example of power abuse... but it starts with someone making speeches about "loosing the country" or "taking it back" or "Making It Great Again". It's a call to the worst forms of political violence and should be a red flag that we need to preach tolerance and also be ready to defend egalitarian values that might actual work against our own benefit.
For me this is agape... the love of mankind... all mankind. Many think this is God's job but I think its a shared responsibility. It can only work if the power is applied to insure the safety and welfare of the least of us.
Does that sound like an "ism"? A belief system? Sure. I think that's how we help people see the greatest good... appeal to their sense of humanity and how were are all one. And yet we are each unique. We deserve to be who we truly are and live in peace.
Bandaids are being ripped off some truly abhorrent US History... let it inform your sense of how we have so much work to do to make the world work for all.
If you see or hear hate... take action to defect it towards a dialogue or to prevent violence. Be a witness for God in humanity. We are all his children.
I use these themes but should disclose, I'm an atheist which is why I believe we must do the hard work and protect the least of us.
I think people in India would agree with you there.
Absolutely, and in Ireland, and Australian Aborigines, South African Zulus and an endless list of other victims.
Agreed.
Hate is the enemy. The only thing that will conquer hate is love. The only true control I have in this world is my heart. I do my best to fill it with love and compassion for all. Start a grass roots movement in your heart. I imagine what we could achieve if everyone were to do this.
Agreed.
Hate is akin to anger and fear.
We feel fear, we feel anger and anger leads to hate.
The World needs love not more fear of the bigger stick.
For anyone in the US or anyone with an interest in US history, I would recommend reading Howard Zinn’s ‘A People's History of the United States’.
Even if you don’t like Zinn or what he represents, this book is an attempt to state things factually as much as possible, and if nothing else, brings to light many parts of US history that are not commonly known.
For those that mentioned the Watchmen tv series, kudos and it tied in to the comic with Hooded Justice. Just brilliant and no disrespect to Alan Moore because he has great disdain for adaptations and new material based on his creations.
For an alternative opinion on the subject.
Watch it at your own risk I just saw and still don’t know how to process it…like the time I read ‘A People’s History of the United States’.
I’m not affiliated with the person who made the content so please don’t direct your complaints or praise at me. I don’t know what to think of it.
Before anyone says it: "Why is this here on the forum?"
I'd say, these historic injustices can inspire great music and art. And we should value anything that motivates someone to create as much as we value a review of a new app.
That's my thinking. Uncomfortable, inconvinient truths are powerful motivations to move us to take action. And those actions can be musical too.