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The Greenwood Massacre Centennial
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I’m really ambivalent about whether art should be ‘above the fray’ or not. Too much in the fray and it turns into something else; but how can we not be affected by the world?
A number of years ago I designed this license plate frame but decided not to use it in case it drew unwanted attention to my car; plus maybe it’s too ambiguous.
Yes. I missed that that was where you were pulling the number from. Thank you for clarifying.
Certainly. You’re welcome.
Why would you be “ashamed to be a human being” because of something someone else did? Guilt by association requires mind reading, which is not a thing.
If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
We will disagree on solutions but if you try taking on someone’s view you might see why you are a problem for them.
The US is pretty safe for white folks. Most of the conquered world is also open for tourism.
But the CRT... gotta stop that to protect white folks from what? Shame. “I didn’t do nothing.”
If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
I don’t think Officer Tatum’s opinions are worth very much, IMO. Firstly, anyone who looks seriously into the Tulsa massacre will find the events leading up to it in plain view. Nothing is hidden or concealed. Obviously, Tatum’s skills at research and general scholarship leave something to be desired. He uses his “facts” to support his POV. it’s like Barr deciding there was no obstruction by Trump and then Trumping up the evidence to back up his inclination that the prez is untouchable. Facts should create a POV, not the other way around.
Secondly, he pretty much assumes the black guy did rape the white woman. Harper Lee might have something to say about that. Still, whether justified or not, the response to armed black men at a federal building was hardly proportional (gosh, it didn’t seem like such a big deal when a bunch of white rubes showed up at the Michigan State Capitol armed with assault weapons to protest mask wearing and threaten the life of the governor).
As far as the many comments about not trusting history... again, I propose the 50% rule... if even half of the history is accurate and it still seems pretty terrible then one can assume it was, in fact, pretty terrible.
As @NeuM said, even the loss of one life is unacceptable.
I want to commend @NeuM for his unflappable and civil discourse. We have come to loggerheads many times on this forum. It is no secret that the majority here are pretty liberal. And it is tough sledding for any who proffer opposing views. Usually the “opponent” betrays a crass underbelly, skulks away or is banned.
My “sideism” leads me to cheer their departure, but I regret that the discourse devolves into name calling,
Specious arguments and even, in one case, threats by the “lone wolf”
Not so in this discussion. I hope @NeuM feels he is a welcome, vital, and necessary member even if he is under fire... Not to mention being wrong (lol, just kidding, tho I do think he is. And I do support his freedom of speech and right to a differing opinion especially when presented in a cogent and civil manner.
The first article states allegations without any proof, and the second is a report of her stepping down.
At least describe the articles for what they are rather than state the allegations as if they are an already proven fact.
At times, there are real problems which must be addressed and 99 times out of 100 those problems are addressed head on. In other cases, the problems are in one’s perception. The old saying, “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” applies here. To a person whose worldview is steeped in racist beliefs, everything ends up looking like racism.
How many facts are necessary to convince you of something very odd about a Marxist engaging in ‘counter-revolutionary’ property buying? Even other BLM members vocally criticized her over this and she had to step down.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9583359/Marxist-Black-Lives-Matter-founder-Patrisse-Cullors-bemoans-racism-inside-housing-market.html
I really appreciate your comments, @LinearLineman. It is always possible to disagree and remain good friends with other people. That is testament to the greatness of a free exchange of ideas in an open society. “We can disagree without being disagreeable.”
LL .Good to hear you consider NeuM to be Cogent and Civil ,pity that richardyot has lost their rag with a juvenile attack ,just “noise”and a cartoon. So has anyone actually watched “Uncle Tom” the highest critical rating 10 on Amazon Prime? So sad “ashamed to be a human being”. statement.
You're embarrassing yourself. I find your whole disinterested "just asking questions" shtick distasteful, and I personally am not fooled by a polite racist, but you have a whole crowd watching you dig deeper, and it's clear the only one you're trying to persuade is yourself. Please, no one else respond to this troll. Blocked and moving on. Regret that we couldn't have a discussion about Tulsa.
There are no facts here or in the other two articles to support the allegations of her using donated funds to buy her properties.
As for the third article, there have been plenty of lawsuits against lenders in the US to support the ‘redlining’ she is complaining about (although I disagree with her about government policy as the CRA and other regulations exist to combat exactly this).
Tulsa should be taught so children can face the tough questions.
Do you think the Holocaust is taught in a Germany or disregarded as irrelevant historical detail?
You can have shame for the acts of your ancestors... that’s a truly valid reason to work for positive social and political change.
Introspection is a bitch. Most prefer denial and anger at being asked to confront uncomfortable facts.
Facts are becoming less and less useful for persuasion
In the age of cults and tribal disinformation myths.
Q is still at work with new authors mining the cult for $’s and action.
August is their new political “eschaton”.
It’s important that we experience as much of the past as possible. A good example is the brutal reality of the Holocaust Museums around the world - a tough reminder for all who have the strength to endure them will hopefully go a long way towards preventing anything quite like it to happen again.
Those are interesting comments. I know for a fact Germans are reminded daily about their country’s part in the Holocaust and WWII. It is something they’ll still be aware of hundreds of years from now.
What is your opinion regarding US Civil War monuments removed by mobs in a fit of outrage versus people being reminded of history with monuments remaining in full view? Is history removed history forgotten?
At what age should children be exposed to the history of the most dangerous animal?
“Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee” hit me like a kick to the stomach. It warned me that people in power may do some acts you (and most people) would never support under the cloak of bureaucracy and national defense.
This is a time for a reckoning on the post civil war era. Pop culture is packaging the lessons in works like “The Watchmen” mini-series, “Lovecraft Country” and “The Underground Railroad”.
Art is our most powerful tool of persuasion.
Should definitely teach the good and bad of a countries history in schools, from British colonialism to the genocide of the indigenous people of America. Plus the countless other slaughters, genocides, invasions and illegal wars countries have led
You did not address me since you did not quote or name me, but I can answer for myself. I’m not embarrassed by asking challenging questions. Are you? And it’s not “racist” to ask questions. If you choose not to answer, I take it you may not have considered opposing points of view which are not racist.
I’m against statues lamenting the “Lost Cause”. I can learn about the Civil War history with a visit to the library. Most of those statues were erected by Daughters of the South in response to civil rights advances. They are tributes to white denial.
Find me a status of Hitler or his Generals and I’ll see you’ve made some kind of relevant point but frankly you have only disclosed yet another blindspot. Robert E. Lee was not an American Patriot and the country he served was disbanded but has never ceased the struggle to affirm a distinct social order I find repugnant. He deserves no honor for his crimes against humanity. Slavery is an amoral policy to affirm at any time.
Statues of Christopher Columbus are also a salve to Italian immigrants that needed to have a heroic reference in US history and a reason for identity parades. It doesn’t change history and removing the statues is helpful to expose more blind spots. We can face reality and learn from the exercise.
Thanks for asking. Your Mob is often my organized protest.
I don’t doubt the conviction of the 1/6 Mob that they believe the lies of their Dear Leader.
They were protesting an election using violence. They had a lot of help from the men who guard the Nation... the truth will out even if Congress doesn’t investigate it on TV.
I also hear mendacity in his rhetoric.
Would you believe it if I told you the Civil War was waged by the Federal government over the southern states threatening to leave the union and not over slavery? That’s a historical fact. And I don’t even hail from or align any of my beliefs with slave owners in the South.
You said “(y)our Mob is often my organized protest.” Organized protests are 100% OK with me. Arson, assault, looting, robbery, murder and promoting Marxist propaganda are problems.
This 👏
Perspective :
https://www.unz.com/ghood/the-tulsa-libel/
If you let him he will slowly disclose the roots of his world view.
He might see danger in the trends of pop music and play the WAP card to demonstrate the corruption of morals. Most of these root beliefs are shadows of a Puritan tradition that does not believe the body or sex are topics worth public discussion.
Those roots become a basis for characterizing other races, religions and lifestyle. The Puritan reaches for rule making power to enforce their views on society. They see it as a moral imperative. They loved Trump because he kept winning and taking power from the dreaded left. They could ignore his peccadillos because he kicked some serious lefty ass. He became a kind of zealots God man. He still is...
We have a lot of work to do to keep our republic.
Please let this guy speak his truth. He believes. There is much to learn but we must listen and practice our responses because we have neighbors, relatives and friends that need to be confronted in their believes that fuel their hatred of large groups of citizens they would attempt to disenfranchise, jail or potentially kill with extreme prejudice. They pretty much own a police force for these actions and will fight to keep the status quo in place.
If you’re not part of the...
I get a far different takeaway from it. It wasn't just faceless bureaucrats doing this behind people's backs. They did what they did with the full support of the public at large and the worst violent atrocities were fully accepted and encouraged among the military. Nope, we don't get to hide behind "they didn't know it was happening".
My takeaway is we're all potentially capable of atrocious behavior if the societal context accepts it. Thus the importance of reminding ourselves to be on guard against these tendencies in ourselves and in society.
Facts are even better for some of us. I know I'm more moved by factual presentation of history than by art / dramatization. People vary. The most moving drama or song, or whatever, touches me only superficially and temporarily, if I don't understand the factual underpinning of it. I can be moved deeply by the driest history if I trust the source.
And before anyone gets into their “this is fascism” garbage , the site is run by a Jew.
OK, here comes a recommendation to those of you whose sensibilities go beyond the "Tulsa was a terrible sounding event" and "everybody's racist, it's not a big deal" hot takes
- if your luck brings you to the vicinity of Amsterdam this summer, the Rijksmuseum will have an important exhibition that is quite relevant to this thread.
It's called Slavernij (Slavery), and it is an attempt to encourage the Dutch to face their own colonial past. It opens this weekend. Here is the English version of the website: https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/whats-on/exhibitions/slavery . The BBC has an interesting article about the exhibition (https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20210601-how-the-dutch-are-facing-up-to-their-colonial-past), in which the museum's head historian offers this interesting take:
I think it's important to point out that racism is not something that always existed... [] ...Discrimination is universal, but to legalise it as a system that a certain group of people was meant to serve the other half of the world, that is something that was installed by colonialism, and at the end of colonialism that was reinforced through 'scientific' racist ideas. Racism was borne out of colonialism, not the other way round.
Bro you gotta get off the internet before someone hurts your feelings in a way you can’t recover from. Seriously, your self esteem will be whittled down to nothing if you keep spewing nonsense like “this blatantly racist propaganda can’t be blatantly racist propaganda bc the guy who runs the site is X.”
I’m not trying to be mean. As a society we have a moral imperative to strangle the egos of little Stephen Millers in the crib so they don’t grow up to be big Stephen Millers.
PS: Ron Unz is a notorious and open antisemite, so there’s .... also that.
Dupe post...