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The Greenwood Massacre Centennial
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Welcome to the forum, Instrument6. Although why anyone would need to create a sock-puppet account to post links to fascist fanfic is anybody's guess.
I do love facts since I’m Scientish (spelling intended).
But the hearts of men are moved by art.
If you’re brain is sufficiently powerful it rarely entertains emotional argument. Emotions are often at odds with facts and can prove to be an unreliable sensor for external events.
But the key is moving groups into actions.
The truly cerebral rarely take up arms because the future is doomed to look just like the past under new management.
There’s not much hope facts will suddenly change things for the better but they are the threads we weave into cogent historical summaries. The kind that don’t move you. “Bury...” changed my view of American empire and it’s limitless greed.
I read it during the Vietnam era where a generation said no to a senseless War. Then lived to see more senseless wars driven by our fears of others. We got played and acted like the doomed bully does in a teenage rom com. Humiliated as big but so, so dumb.
Not really, as the two were inextricably tied together. Southern states wanted to secede so that they would not be bound by changes in slave laws.
...
As a white southerner from a long line of white southerners would you believe it if I told you people who spread this kind of revisionism are hateful dangerous pieces of uneducated cancerous shit and I’d be happy to be banned from this forum for saying so?
Well NeuM it’s either you or me that ExAsperis99 is directing his comments to,I reckon it’s you-because we seem to be the only posters that have Triggered the majority of this thread I get zero responses to my posts.
Cant stop accidentally double posting. Sorry!
......
Monuments glorifying traitors that fought for the right to enslave people don't really teach history. Most of those monuments were built post-reconstruction by people sympathetic to the secessionist cause who were trying to reframe their traitorous pro-enslavement war as some sort of noble act.
I would not believe that because it is not true. It is a historical fact (read the various declarations of secession for documentation) that the confederate states seceded to protect slavery. The notion that the Civil War was fought over something else is another one of those post-reconstructionist artifacts. Here is one of many articles that you can find that provide primary documents so that you can read the actual words.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/
If you want historical monuments related to the Civil War and the South, the most prominent monuments should educate people about the practices of enslaving people and document the savage inhumane practice of enslavement -- and the abhorrent views that made enslavement possible.
Germans are aware of their history because such awareness was forced on them by the allies. In the U.S., we have never come to grips with our past and we don't teach it well.
Interesting that you hear mendacity in his rhetoric.
That word pretty much sums up the whole video.
Even a lie has an element of truth.
Still, I left the discussion last night for a reason.
I jokingly added this morning ' What's new?'.
The reply was "nothing" so I'm staying out of it.
He's got his attention for the thread and predictably
he'll have something to say about my comment here.
If he doesn't? I'll be surprised.
The memory of the Tulsa Massacre is in a way being 'honoured',
by discussing some very, very serious issues.
We've also heard from someone who grew up with
bombs and shootings and though the war has stopped
in his country the hatred continues and I feel for him
as not every war or battle is fought with bombs and guns.
I've also learnt that facts are merely opinions.
One moment, that should be "some facts are merely opinions.
If a discussion is pointless then it's not a discussion
it's simply a bar room brawl with an audience.
If it's bar room brawl?
At the very least buy a round of drinks, make it worth everyones while.
I'm going to play with my homemade
virtual 32 step drum machine that I built myself.
It's fun.
I've got flashing lights and everything.
On a serious note.
For the people who were killed in that horrific event
and for the many horrific events that have happened since then.
My sorrow.
I hope that if there is life after this one and that they found
something that loved them rather than the hate that killed them.
Peace.
✊🏽
RIP
🙏🏽
That’s only bc this is the grown-ups table and we’re trying to have a conversation.
There is no profit in condemnation. And the benefit of the doubt works... for awhile....” fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice... well, that just ain’t gonna happen” - GW Bush
@NeuM, I think most educated people understand the Civil War, for Lincoln, did not start out as an anti slavery issue. He desperately wanted to keep the Union intact, tho the abolitionist movement was hot and heavy. Lincoln would have shipped the slaves to Liberia. The Emancipation Proclamation was expeditious to turn the war around. Does that make it any fucking better?
At least Lincoln recognized we all have better and worse angels of our nature.
The Jews in ancient Israel had slaves. In many cases the slave had to be treated better than the master.. and all slaves were manumitted every seven years. That’s pretty ancient shit. As Flanders and Swann once sang... “Eating people is wrong”....no matter how you package it.
I totally agree anyone of any race can be racist. I also admit race issues were just not on my radarfor over half a century. So I don’t have a history of seeing everything as racist. But I am here now and a bit more conscious. You can eliminate all the human failings and personal agendas on both sides of the issue and it seems rather clear that what’s going on in 2021 America is a struggle for white guys to keep their grasp on the insignificant rung of the ladder they are dangling from. They just don’t get that demographically they are dinosaurs and that immigrants in this country don't even want that greasy rung. They’ll simply climb over them as their aging bodies expire and drop off like rotten fruit. That is why they are so desperate and will abandon democracy if it ain’t the road to their self preservation as they see it.
Will the next lot be any better? Simply, not likely. But attitudes do change. Interracial marriage used to be a big whoop. Now racists proudly display their children’s interracial offspring... like that changes their spots. Just remember... eating people is wrong.
The notion that BLM is a movement that promotes violence or racism is wrong. The vast majority of BLM supporters are opposed to racism in all its forms. It is certainly possible (even likely) that there are people in the movement that have racist sentiments but that doesn't say anything about the movement.
It also isn't a Marxist organization. Are there socialists and Marxists who participate? Probably. There are also socialists and Marxists in many churches, mosques and synagogues. That doesn't make any of those things Marxist.
Grown up table ,resulting in Facist accusations,trying to have a conversation, typical leftist CRT Marxism legsmechanical
Agreed.
Agreed.
I appreciate the baiting try but you "three" will have to soldier along without me.
No one left behind.
Your voice is equally as important as anyone else's
even if all you do is read the comments.
And proud to be so. Now run long before it gets cold.
Maybe racism is not a “thing” but a lack or an absence. I think it’s a lack of the sense of a common humanity.
For example, the composer Ned Rorem wrote somewhere that there is no such thing as “bad taste”, there’s only taste and lack of taste.
The Persian poet Saadi (1258) writes:
“All human beings are members of one frame,
Since all, at first, from the same essence came.
When time afflicts a limb with pain
The other limbs at rest cannot remain.
If thou feel not for other’s misery
A human being is no name for thee."
I mean, if you're a fascist, do you have musical heroes? You're on a music forum, and pretty much every musician* hates you. It must be really weird.
*With the exception of post-"Double Live Gonzo" Ted Nugent, I guess.
Can anyone unpack "Antifa" for me? I've never been fond of anarchists and they remind me of a lot of leftist groups that were infiltrated by foreign intelligence agencies to generate disruptions that induce fear.
I believe BLM is a well meaning attempt to re-visit the abuses of power by police against people of color. Giving people guns and authorizing the use of deadly force when someone
is afraid is a terrible way to create public safety.
Anyone that has had a bad experience with police can relate. For me it's traffic tickets and
how they tend to get handed out along the lines of county boundaries. I had to cross one
to get to work and most of my tickets were given by policing the speed of the commuters leaving one county to enter the other. It's a game of public funding that abuses one group over another to raise revenues.
Never forge that police forces are under the control of a local government and most governments tend to be corrupt... and so it goes.
Power is not shared equally and some might think it's doled out on merit but that's rarely true. It's doled out by status and group loyalties. Convincing people to vote against their own self interest requires "agape" and the will to form a more just world. Its a battle to be waged for hearts and minds. It usually involves leadership and some blurring of factual realities...
politics by any other name: activism, community organizer, civil rights worker or artist.
Antifa is not a thing. It’s an ideology that directly opposes fascism in all its forms. The idea that it’s an organization or has some overriding directive or hierarchy was invented whole cloth by the right to create a boogeyman to to scare their little Brads and Kelseys when they tuck them in at night.
Little trash can throwing “anarchists” in skinny jeans are obnoxious but at least their heart’s in the right place.
Thanks. Now explain the chaos of Seattle and Portland since facism took over the White House (that would be 2016 for me).
Huh? Me? That sounds like a lot of work.
@McD Antifa unpacked in an image...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/General_George_S_Patton.jpg
I'm going to switch to another @LinearLineman post that doesn't involve listening to music.
What about Andy Ngo? Members of Antifa have tried twice now to murder him. We’re all opposed to murder here, right?
One founder of BLM is a self-described “trained Marxist”… and that’s not even a quote taken out of context. The BLM site no longer lists “critical theory” as part of their movement (it did before), but critical theory is in fact, Marxism.
Patrice Cullors is a Marxist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrisse_Cullors
Alicia Garza supported socialist Bernie Sanders and is anti-capitalist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Garza
Quote from PolitiFact page about BLM’s founders:
_"We do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia, in particular, are trained organizers; we are trained Marxists. We are superversed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think what we really try to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many Black folks."
We didn’t find that Garza and Tometi have referred to themselves as Marxists. But the book publisher Penguin Random House has said Garza, an author, "describes herself as a queer social justice activist and Marxist."_
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/jul/21/black-lives-matter-marxist-movement/
And what did/do Marxists want anyway?
https://fee.org/articles/5-things-marx-wanted-to-abolish-besides-private-property/
So ... is the point here that being Marxist is somehow illegal? That one can't be anti-racism and Marxist at the same time? That all BLM'rs care only about political / economic ideology? That most of them do? That they're a threat to capitalism and democracy?
Sincere question. I'm absolutely anti-Marxist myself, but it never crossed my mind since back in the 60's, when I was a kid and my parents were seeing them hiding in the cupboard ready to knife us, that it was wrong to be one.
But, maybe that's not what you're saying. I'll admit to not super carefully reading all this thread.
One of the founders identifying as Marxist doesn't make the organization Marxist.
Also from the article you linked to: "Black Lives Matter has grown into a national anti-racism movement broadly supported by Americans, few of whom would identify themselves as Marxist."
So, no, per the source you yourself cited, BLM is not a Marxist organization.
As I said earlier, you will find Marxists active in many organizations (churches, etc) that doesn't make them Marxist organizations.
Many Marxists (most in the West, I'd daresay) believe in and are deeply committed to freedom and justice and liberty. They aren't monsters.
I’m a Marxist. Can you milk me, Greg?