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Ukraine
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lol nope
I’m correct. There are no partial impeachments.
You're having a break with reality.
The New York Times is not reality. They’re a Left-leaning news organization and that’s the opinion of their editorial staff. Fox News leans right. And CNN is a total garbage fire.
Or perhaps you'd prefer a different news source?
Clinton was impeached and then censured but not convicted so he finished his term of office. I had to fix the record. Trump’s votes split across strict party lines with a few republican votes to convict on round 2. The process proved to be as corrupt as his business and administration. Mueller documented 8 cases of obstruction of justice and told congress he could be indicted when he left office. No one has the stones for it and hopes he just goes away. 2 NYC prosecutors quit because the new NY AG does want the case to proceed past the sitting grand jury. He got too many connections and they fear setting off a civil war with indictments. Maybe the banks he defrauded will call in his loans and he’ll go over the edge. I don’t think Russia will be holding him up but the Saudis might… he earned it in spades with special favors and access.
It is very sad that a decent thread can be hijacked by one individual. Spending time in any response to such an individual is purposeless and aids in the purposeful deflection .
Err, Russia does have a free market economy.
Keep in mind, anything that is unfairly and in a highly partisan manner done to Trump will be precedent for Biden later and whoever follows. They won’t go “too far” because the public absolutely won’t accept it.
You're absolutely right. But when someone insists that up is down, it's hard to resist the urge to refute it.
Shout out to Ukrainian youtuber Super Sus, king of the underground.
Ah. I see how it is with you. You’re emboldened to dish it out, but you can’t take it. Wow.
If you don’t like like the heat, stop posting inflammatory comments. And stop acting like you can (or should) control others. It’s a very unbecoming trait.
@NeuM I won’t tell you what I really think of you because I don’t want this thread shut down because of a single individual (me, not you, but if the shoe fits feel free to slip it on). Several individuals made it clear that this thread should be about empathy and not enmity. You have the knack (purposeful, IMO) to bring enmity out in people. You have demonstrated that here time and again.
I suggest neither you nor I post on this thread again. That leaves it to its original purpose.
You’re free to post your opinions. So am I. How about you leave it at that?
@NeuM you may want to investigate the meaning of the word mensch.
No. There are still people of character in the government. Biden would be a tough target for claims of corruption... how many hearings did they have on Hillary and it never progressed. There was smoke but no fire just innuendos.
Trump took Top Secret materials to his home. That's definitely illegal. The list of crimes that are justifiably prosecutable without malice is clear to anyone with a smattering of legal training.
Nixon was driven from office for obstruction of justice. Trump had 8 instances early in his term. Trump broke our system and we're desperately trying to find the right people to glue it back together. Republicans think a 1 party system would be ideal. "Single Party Democracies" can't meet the definition of the label.
How do you feel about Azerbaijan, or Turkey, both of whom have recently acted far more aggressively and have a much worse track record? What makes Russia special?
Russia is as democratic as the Ukraine. More so maybe. The Ukraine had a coup in 2014 (one can argue over whether it was justified, but it was a coup), shuts down newspapers and jails dissidents. Its government have been pursuing policies that would treat one ethnic group (Ukrainian speakers) better than another group (Russian speakers). Similar points could be made about quite a few of the recent entries to NATO. And one could also note the lurch towards authoritarianism (or worse) in places like Poland, Turkey, etc.
None of that justifies anything Russia is doing, but the free world is not being defended here.
Russia has been complaining quite vociferously about this for around 15 years. It may not be the only reason, it very clearly is a big reason. Anyone arguing differently is either ignorant, or taking the piss.
The news.
Those elections are a joke. Putin has killed or jailed any opposition candidates. Google it.
It's a flawed justification to move troops across the border. They have been arming insurgents in these border states for 7 years. It's a mess and has all the potential solutions that plague the middle east and Gaza. It will go on and on but Putin has advanced his forces towards his end goal of control of Ukraine.
Putin is a master of doublespeak and that's why Trump loves him... he just takes what he wants and no one can touch him. Trump wants that kind of State and it's powerbase to build symbols of power. "You think Mar A Logo is grand, Donald, check out my little abode"
I hate to break it to you, but the senator for Delaware will have a lot of skeletons. Biden may be a lot of things, but he isn't clean. And there are plenty of people in his administration who are as dirty as hell. ex-lobbyists, corporate lawyers, etc, etc.
The thing about the Trump administration that always amused me was not the corruption, but how petty most of it was. Your typical administration is filled with white collar criminal types. They speak well, are connected, know the lingo and steal billions, often completely legally. Hillary Clinton organized a coup in Honduras that placed a known drug trafficker (who amusingly is now being extradited to the US) in charge. But that's fine because the right people benefitted. Whereas Trump made a few million dollars by forcing foreign governments to rent out Trump hotel rooms if they wanted an audience. Like neither's good, but the latter probably hurts fewer people in the long run.
The Trump administration was as if a bunch of street hoodlums had somehow got elected to the Whitehouse and spent their term trying to steal the brass fittings. Obviously you don't want to condone it, but...
The claim that Trump violated some kind of secrecy law is absurd. He was the President. He’s in a small club of elected people who can simply declare these document are declassified and then they are. And by the way, this top secret clearance doesn’t “disappear” after leaving office.
And I’ve reviewed the U.S. Code which has been cited. It doesn’t apply to the Chief Executive.
Regarding Biden, he’s not exempt from future investigations.
Do you honestly believe top secret pieces of paper are just handed out ( which can be taken to a photo copier ) and be made not so top secret. To someone who were accused of being a Russian agent? Or anyone? I think top secret remains in vault like scenarios and comprise of tech/security. Unless its the x files. The US prbably does control Ukraine ( with all its corruption ) Thats why people like Hilary and Biden feel the need to talk about Pootin ( in almost every speech ) To people who probably dont need to know/care because they are eating big macs.
@cian
Maybe you're unaware, but it's a little off-putting how categorical you can be. (I know, I know: Pot, meet kettle.)
For instance, I think it's up for debate whether the 2014 ejection of a Moscow puppet in Ukraine actually constituted a coup. I mean, Russia certainly considered the Maidan revolution a coup. You might say that I'm naive to imagine that mass protests in the public square in the face of brutal police repression actually constituted a popular uprising.
Your perspective and broad interests are valuable. But saying things like "Anyone arguing differently is . . . ignorant" — well, that rather shuts down the exchange of opinions a bit.
Documents labeled Top Secret cannot be taken outside of secure facilities. Clean cut illegal behavior and
there are statutes detailing the wrong doing. But you will wave your hand and move on.
We would need a shared basis of facts to achieve anything useful. We can't agree on how laws and the legal system work and why it's so frustrating that Trump has floated above the law for decades.
The lengths you will go to apologize or excuse or "what-a-bout" amuses me to a point and then I must simply disregard you. It's like Monty Python's argument sketch:
So just the fact that the US media is talking about Russia, and ignored the far worse actions of Turkey and Azerbaijan? Or Saudi/UAE in Yemen.
The only opposition candidates who died that I can think of were oligarchs who directly challenged Putin. Some have been jailed, but it's often more complicated. For example Navalny was never a serious political threat, but was a threat too many powerful people (not Putin particularly) due to his popular anti-corruption YouTube channel. Being a journalist in Russia can be a high risk profession. Plenty of powerful, wealthy, people who can eliminate threats quite easily.
Today there are regional governors and powerful mayors who are not from Putin's party. I wouldn't say that elections are exactly fair in Russia because they're not, but it's no dictatorship.
Meanwhile in the Ukraine journalists also get murdered, opposition figures get arrested (including hilariously ex-presidents), newspapers get shutdown.
I didn't say it justified it, merely that it's a real concern that they have. And one reason that there are insurgents in the Ukraine is that the stupid government, post-coup, decided to go all out on Ukrainian-Chauvinism.
If you mean Putin plans to conquer the Ukraine and absorb it into Russia - then no I doubt that very much. Russia was able to absorb the Crimea quite easily because the Crimeans are (mostly) fine with it. Obviously occupying Kiev would turn into a nasty war of occupation - and Putin seems to canny to want that.
If you mean turn the Ukraine into a country that doesn't work directly against Russian interests. Quite probably.
... apparently it's perfectly fine for Putin to poison and jail Navalny and basically torture him for nothing other than a non-violent political opponent to Putin
Russia the good guy ( rolls eyes )
LEAVING this thread for good now.
Those elections are indeed a joke, but kremlin's violent reactions towards opposition (which unfortunately is nothing to write home about) are more of an effect of government's paranoia. Please consider that russia is very very big and opposition is — at least in part — a very Moscow/big city kind of thing.
I think it's quite damaging for understanding the problem with Russia to view its regime as a simple dictatorship. It was a very slow and meticulous process of moving towards it. Kind of a tightrope act. As this era is objectively nearing its end it more readily falls to this black and white category. But for the majority of these 20 years (10 of which were quite prosperous) it was a process of taking those freedoms just a bit each time. From one outrageous singular incident to another. So people could say 'well, that was bad, but it's still not THAT bad'. And we are really very very afraid of revolutions — it was a bloody mess each time over here.
No, I’ve read the U.S. Code cited by the newsies. It is not illegal for the Chief Executive. That’s a completely bogus argument.
I don't think his jailing was a good thing, I just find it very hard to believe it was because he regularly polled around 1% in national elections. He campaigned, very effectively, against regional corruption. Granted pissing off Putin may not have helped his case, but it had nothing to do with his electoral chances.
Incidentally Navalny might be very brave, but he's also a racist asshole whose politics are to the right of Putin's. And if you think Putin hates the US, wait until you see some of the stuff Navalny has said over the years.
Something a Russian once told me was that the Kremlin had a habit of rigging elections they were going to win anyway.
I've always thought that it was deeply wrong to see Russia as 100% controlled by Putin. It just doesn't seem to concur with what actually happens in Russia.
Who do people think will replace him? Or indeed will happen next?
Yeah. However bad things might be today, they seem like they're significantly better than the 90s. It's not a matter of things could be worse - but more, I remember when they were worse.
Anyway I hope things get better in Russia.