KNOCK by DECAP (Released)

Slush

@monz0id said:

@Stuntman_mike said:

@monz0id said:

@hansjbs said:
He did it for the community.

If that’s the case, why price it so high that most of the community won’t buy it?

I’m sure it’s great at what it does, but is it twice as good as Drambo? Has it taken twice as much work as the developer of Drambo put into his app? As much work as Loopy Pro?

@Stuntman_mike said:
This conversation will be different this time next year. This is not price gouging, this is reality.

The reality is that a large chunk of people in the UK are choosing between heating and eating. Food banks are increasing at an alarming rate, and there’s a global recession looming. I’ve had no new work for three months, as my clients are all scaling back or going bust. There’s less money around for hobbyists, and pro’s. Next year is going to be brutal.

I could be totally wrong, but apps priced at nearly forty quid that make another app sound slightly different, aren’t likely to provide riches for their creators in the current economic environment.

But as I said, there’s nothing stopping devs from raising their prices right now, so it’s really down to them to make the call, not us. Suck it n see.

@Slush said:
I am very curious what the next great desktop dev Audiothing is going to do in 2023 on our platform.

Looks like their first app is going to be free.

Wow, I’m sorry to hear about the UK and your business. I pray that your situation turns around and new, exciting opportunities surface 🙏🏻 God bless you.

Thank you.

But that’s the reality for everyone in the UK - our heating and energy bills tripled overnight, and they’re set to rise again next year. Food bills up 20%. Businesses closing everywhere. Mortgage rates up, inflation at 10%. Europe hit with rising costs too. And it’s set to get worse. Happy Christmas!

I think pricing of genuine, pro-level apps should reflect the work that’s gone into them, but developers also need to read their market, and outside of the US, it ain’t looking too healthy.

Same here in the Netherlands, energy prices up, food up, growing lines at food banks. A nice small coffeehouse in our town just recently closed as it had bills to pay of more than €7000 a month. One of many, and it’s all going down hill. And politicians can only talk about the ‘green agenda’.. In the meantime, banks are worldwide harvesting gold to cover themselves against what’s coming. Knock knock, that’s the reality most of us are going to have to deal with.

Gavinski

@Slush said:

@monz0id said:

@Stuntman_mike said:

@monz0id said:

@hansjbs said:
He did it for the community.

If that’s the case, why price it so high that most of the community won’t buy it?

I’m sure it’s great at what it does, but is it twice as good as Drambo? Has it taken twice as much work as the developer of Drambo put into his app? As much work as Loopy Pro?

@Stuntman_mike said:
This conversation will be different this time next year. This is not price gouging, this is reality.

The reality is that a large chunk of people in the UK are choosing between heating and eating. Food banks are increasing at an alarming rate, and there’s a global recession looming. I’ve had no new work for three months, as my clients are all scaling back or going bust. There’s less money around for hobbyists, and pro’s. Next year is going to be brutal.

I could be totally wrong, but apps priced at nearly forty quid that make another app sound slightly different, aren’t likely to provide riches for their creators in the current economic environment.

But as I said, there’s nothing stopping devs from raising their prices right now, so it’s really down to them to make the call, not us. Suck it n see.

@Slush said:
I am very curious what the next great desktop dev Audiothing is going to do in 2023 on our platform.

Looks like their first app is going to be free.

Wow, I’m sorry to hear about the UK and your business. I pray that your situation turns around and new, exciting opportunities surface 🙏🏻 God bless you.

Thank you.

But that’s the reality for everyone in the UK - our heating and energy bills tripled overnight, and they’re set to rise again next year. Food bills up 20%. Businesses closing everywhere. Mortgage rates up, inflation at 10%. Europe hit with rising costs too. And it’s set to get worse. Happy Christmas!

I think pricing of genuine, pro-level apps should reflect the work that’s gone into them, but developers also need to read their market, and outside of the US, it ain’t looking too healthy.

Same here in the Netherlands, energy prices up, food up, growing lines at food banks. A nice small coffeehouse in our town just recently closed as it had bills to pay of more than €7000 a month. One of many, and it’s all going down hill. And politicians can only talk about the ‘green agenda’.. In the meantime, banks are worldwide harvesting gold to cover themselves against what’s coming. Knock knock, that’s the reality most of us are going to have to deal with.

If you think things are bad now, just wait til global heating really kicks in. These are going to look like Halcyon days in comparison, sadly

jwmmakerofmusic

I used to say "eh, one less drink from Starbucks". These days it's "eh, one less meal out at a restaurant". 😂 Well mates, looks like it's instant ramen for supper for me tonight. No way am I passing up Knock.

[Deleted User]

@Slush said:

Same here in the Netherlands, energy prices up, food up, growing lines at food banks. A nice small coffeehouse in our town just recently closed as it had bills to pay of more than €7000 a month.

Yeah, devastated to hear a local cafe/venu here that's been going for nealy 40 years is having to close today - same reason, they just can't afford the bills. Scary times.

Paa89

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I used to say "eh, one less drink from Starbucks". These days it's "eh, one less meal out at a restaurant". 😂 Well mates, looks like it's instant ramen for supper for me tonight. No way am I passing up Knock.

🤣🤣🤣 time has changed for real.

SLPGroundSoundMusic

@Gavinski said:
@SLPGroundSoundMusic also curious what people make of my comparison with Beef!

it was good comparison, but actually i can notice that even though beef has more parameters controls over knocks, but knocks makes the drums sounds more snappy, cleaner and punchier then beef, and im guessing that is because knocks clipper gives knocks the edge over beef, because when it comes to beef's limiter, the limiter takes or shallow the snappiness, the punchiness and the transients away from the drums which is the bad thing about beef limiter in my opinion, and it is why beef can't compete with knocks like 4pockets drum surgeons can, which also has more control options then knocks, plus surgeons also has a clipper !

hopefully what i wrote makes sense, because my english grammar sucks, Spanish its my main language

Gavinski

@SLPGroundSoundMusic said:

@Gavinski said:
@SLPGroundSoundMusic also curious what people make of my comparison with Beef!

it was good comparison, but actually i can notice that even though beef has more parameters controls over knocks, but knocks makes the drums sounds more snappy, cleaner and punchier then beef, and im guessing that is because knocks clipper gives knocks the edge over beef, because when it comes to beef's limiter, the limiter takes or shallow the snappiness, the punchiness and the transients away from the drums which is the bad thing about beef limiter in my opinion, and it is why beef can't compete with knocks like 4pockets drum surgeons can, which also has more control options then knocks, plus surgeons also has a clipper !

hopefully what i wrote makes sense, because my english grammar sucks, Spanish its my main language

That does make sense. It's still pretty close! I must ask Paul for a copy of Drum Surgeon. So do you think it can equal or better 'knock'?

Samu

@Gavinski said:

That does make sense. It's still pretty close! I must ask Paul for a copy of Drum Surgeon. So do you think it can equal or better 'knock'?

That will highly depend on which app you'll use as the 'base reference' and what kind of end-result your aiming to get?

Not that I'm trying to knock Knock down but it feels like it's more or less designed for a certain type of sound for specific genres which I'm not personally a huge fan of.

But a detailed comparison between apps is always interesting!

Cheers!

Gavinski

At this price point, I felt a comparison with a much cheaper app in the same ballpark was needed Samu! > @Samu said:

@Gavinski said:

That does make sense. It's still pretty close! I must ask Paul for a copy of Drum Surgeon. So do you think it can equal or better 'knock'?

That will highly depend on which app you'll use as the 'base reference' and what kind of end-result your aiming to get?

Not that I'm trying to knock Knock down but it feels like it's more or less designed for a certain type of sound for specific genres which I'm not personally a huge fan of.

But a detailed comparison between apps is always interesting!

Cheers!

SLPGroundSoundMusic

@Gavinski said:

@SLPGroundSoundMusic said:

@Gavinski said:
@SLPGroundSoundMusic also curious what people make of my comparison with Beef!

it was good comparison, but actually i can notice that even though beef has more parameters controls over knocks, but knocks makes the drums sounds more snappy, cleaner and punchier then beef, and im guessing that is because knocks clipper gives knocks the edge over beef, because when it comes to beef's limiter, the limiter takes or shallow the snappiness, the punchiness and the transients away from the drums which is the bad thing about beef limiter in my opinion, and it is why beef can't compete with knocks like 4pockets drum surgeons can, which also has more control options then knocks, plus surgeons also has a clipper !

hopefully what i wrote makes sense, because my english grammar sucks, Spanish its my main language

That does make sense. It's still pretty close! I must ask Paul for a copy of Drum Surgeon. So do you think it can equal or better 'knock'?

i think surgeon can do a bit better, because surgeon has a bit more control options then knocks, which means that surgeon controls can be more surgical to make the drums sound a bit better then knocks,,, by the sound and look of knock plugins, knock only has only 1 or 2 bands of eq options the sub and the air, when surgeon has and 8 band eq options, plus i think surgeon can be more surgical with the transients too

ervin

@SLPGroundSoundMusic said:

did 4pockets Drum Surgeon actually gave knocks plugins a knock out on this comparison video, or am i wrong ?

Not to my (subjective) ears, no it didn't. 🤷 Knock wasn't spectacularly better than the others (I wouldn't buy it) but I thought it was among the better ones. DS sounded a bit vulgar to me if anything. Not a very disciplined comparison though. 😀

In any case, I never saw this man on YouTube before and I immediately liked his style, so thanks a lot for linking this. 👍

cokomairena

@Simon said:

@hansjbs said:
People are not willing to pay but are asking for pro apps. Anyways. ✌🏾✌🏾✌🏾✌🏾

There is no such thing as "pro apps". It is a marketing term. Like "gourmet food".

There is tasty food and there is boring food. There is healthy food and unhealthy food.

There are apps that sound good and are useful. There are apps that sound bad and not so useful.

Call food "gourmet" and you can charge more for it. Call an app "pro" and you can charge more for it.

there are however crap apps, and crap food

Samu

'Gourmet Food' is quite often an 'Acquired Taste'.

You kinda have to convince yourself that it's 'delicious' because you spent a small fortune for a plate of snails cooked in a wine that tastes like urine or cheese that is almost rotten and smells like someone hasn't changed their socks in a year or two...

The word "Pro" is used to sell an illusion that if you buy this or that 'thing' you'll accomplish amazing things.
...the real definition of "Pro"(fessional) is one who makes money doing what they are good at.

Gavinski

Especially given recent trends in lofi and ambient, it is incredibly easy to make amazing sounding tracks in these kind of genres with basic tools, often free ones, and a little imagination. Most of us would do well to slim down our palette of apps to about 20 faves and see what we can achieve from those

Samu

@Gavinski said:
Most of us would do well to slim down our palette of apps to about 20 faves and see what we can achieve from those

Bingo!

This is one of the reasons why I stated my app clean-up some time ago.

I'm down to 205 apps in total and not fully done yet but at least now I know how every single one of them works and what they do, so no more 'guesswork' which does what and that is a relief...

...I've also managed to fully recover from pokemon instabuy app-o-holism which in itself is largely thanks to apps like Drambo.

And finally I've during the past 6 months really gone back to Logic and plunged thru it in almost every aspect so I don't have to 'think' when I use it but rather just 'use it'.

With that said there are apps I love to use and treat iPad more like an 'Instrument/Sound Module'.

But yeah, an app clean-up is a good way to keep focus

jwmmakerofmusic

@Paa89 said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I used to say "eh, one less drink from Starbucks". These days it's "eh, one less meal out at a restaurant". 😂 Well mates, looks like it's instant ramen for supper for me tonight. No way am I passing up Knock.

🤣🤣🤣 time has changed for real.

😂🤣🤣 Yes it has, lol. I can spend money I earn from selling beats on meals out later. Must invest in my tools first.

---

Knock is really effin good! I tried it on some drums on one of my existing Lofi tracks on a drum buss, and it brought those samples to life! It makes them punchier of course but also glues them with whatever saturation algo it uses.

In my opinion, Knock is not necessarily for Lofi production, but it seems a crucial tool when heading into Drill and Trap territory (unless you use pre-processed samples, but I prefer my drum samples "dry" to add my own "spices" to).

Sometimes "expensive" doesn't always equal "better" (I do prefer ToneBoosters to FabFilters), but Knock is worth the investment for beatmaking whether you're a professional or hobbyist.

Fingolfinzz

I don’t get the debate about pro apps as if there were none on iOS. Fabfilter and Toneboosters are both very high quality

jwmmakerofmusic

@Samu said:
'Gourmet Food' is quite often an 'Acquired Taste'.

You kinda have to convince yourself that it's 'delicious' because you spent a small fortune for a plate of snails cooked in a wine that tastes like urine or cheese that is almost rotten and smells like someone hasn't changed their socks in a year or two...

I'm happy with just McDonald's on occasion. 😂 Gourmet food is often overrated.

The word "Pro" is used to sell an illusion that if you buy this or that 'thing' you'll accomplish amazing things.
...the real definition of "Pro"(fessional) is one who makes money doing what they are good at.

Amen! There are no "magic tools" to make a person instantly successful at music creation (except maybe Scaler 2 lol) but rather knowledge of how the tools you already own work as well as endless ear training to spot flaws in a mix prior to mastering.

With this knowledge, I have a general gist of how a tool may suit my workflow before I buy it. For instance, Copperhead is amazing, but I have Zeeon for that delicious analogue flavour. Audulus 4 is amazing, but I have Drambo for modular hijinks.

I hesitated at first with Knock due to the price tag. I have FAC Transient, Bass Mint, and Beef/Roast Beef afterall. But Knock allows me to dial in those effects quicker and more efficiently.

jwmmakerofmusic

@Fingolfinzz said:
I don’t get the debate about pro apps as if there were none on iOS. Fabfilter and Toneboosters are both very high quality

Exactly! And honestly "pro one-time prices" are what we asked for when we were afraid of many apps going the subscription route. Funny how most folks' tune changed now that we have apps with higher prices.

"Never subscription eff that ish! I'd pay a pro price."

"Oh no, pro prices!"

🤣

[Deleted User]

@Samu said:
...I've also managed to fully recover from pokemon instabuy app-o-holism which in itself is largely thanks to apps like Drambo.

Yeah I’ve been diving into Drambo, learning how to use that properly. I’ve definitely been guilty of new-shiny-app syndrome, and not getting to grips with the ones I already own.

If the new trend is going to be for higher prices, then I’ll be paying a lot more attention to what I already have!

Stuntman_mike

@monz0id said:

@Samu said:
...I've also managed to fully recover from pokemon instabuy app-o-holism which in itself is largely thanks to apps like Drambo.

Yeah I’ve been diving into Drambo, learning how to use that properly. I’ve definitely been guilty of new-shiny-app syndrome, and not getting to grips with the ones I already own.

If the new trend is going to be for higher prices, then I’ll be paying a lot more attention to what I already have!

“Pro Prices” = GAS X 😂

ghost_forests

@mysore said:

@michael_m said:

💯
Imagine working hard on something and getting paid peanuts 😩

Like nurses and teachers?

This hit too close to home, being a teacher

Special Needs teaching assistant here, I know that feel

michael_m

@ghost_forests said:

@mysore said:

@michael_m said:

💯
Imagine working hard on something and getting paid peanuts 😩

Like nurses and teachers?

This hit too close to home, being a teacher

Special Needs teaching assistant here, I know that feel

I think everyone really appreciates what you guys do. Everyone except the governments that pay you… I really hope that things change and you get what you deserve - it’s long overdue!

Fingolfinzz

@ghost_forests said:

@mysore said:

@michael_m said:

💯
Imagine working hard on something and getting paid peanuts 😩

Like nurses and teachers?

This hit too close to home, being a teacher

Special Needs teaching assistant here, I know that feel

My partner is in the exact same line of work as you, you all deserve way more than what you get paid for all that you do.

ghost_forests

@Gavinski said:
Especially given recent trends in lofi and ambient, it is incredibly easy to make amazing sounding tracks in these kind of genres with basic tools, often free ones, and a little imagination. Most of us would do well to slim down our palette of apps to about 20 faves and see what we can achieve from those

A very good example of this can be found here

Gavinski

@ghost_forests said:

@Gavinski said:
Especially given recent trends in lofi and ambient, it is incredibly easy to make amazing sounding tracks in these kind of genres with basic tools, often free ones, and a little imagination. Most of us would do well to slim down our palette of apps to about 20 faves and see what we can achieve from those

A very good example of this can be found here

This guy is great, we have chatted before, super nice guy too

Gavinski

He’s so right also that it’s about the toys in the background, the look of the wooden tables that people play on etc (he doesn’t mention that but it’s in that ballpark). I love aesthetics and nice UI, but it’s hard to understate how much extra these things can make you pay for a plugin, when the same could be done with combos of other cheap / free plugins you already have

jwmmakerofmusic

@ghost_forests said:

@Gavinski said:
Especially given recent trends in lofi and ambient, it is incredibly easy to make amazing sounding tracks in these kind of genres with basic tools, often free ones, and a little imagination. Most of us would do well to slim down our palette of apps to about 20 faves and see what we can achieve from those

A very good example of this can be found here

I saw this video yesterday, which made me start playing with ChowTape again. He explained the plugin thoroughly better than the manual did (which was like reading an audio science dissertation) and gave me a better understanding of how the plugin is actually affecting sound. 😅

[Deleted User]

@Fingolfinzz said:

@ghost_forests said:

@mysore said:

@michael_m said:

💯
Imagine working hard on something and getting paid peanuts 😩

Like nurses and teachers?

This hit too close to home, being a teacher

Special Needs teaching assistant here, I know that feel

My partner is in the exact same line of work as you, you all deserve way more than what you get paid for all that you do.

As the parent of a special needs child, I certainly appreciate what you guys do.

Toastedghost

@monz0id said:

@Slush said:

@Stuntman_mike said:
Yay! I’m actually happy to see prices in this range. This means a few things:
1. Professionals are starting to migrate to iOS
2. Because of #1, desktop developers are seeing opportunities to make money on iOS
3. This is just the beginning of the paradigm shift to mobile music making. Being trapped in a studio to make music is truly becoming a past time.

True, I think you are right. We are too much spoiled by the cheap mobile prices.

Except a lot of us have actually spent more money on 'cheap' mobile prices over the years, than we have desktop software. I'd estimate personally around 4x more, and I have most of the main desktop DAW's.

Cheaper prices mean we buy more apps, which means more devs get a share of our cash.

If delays and apps that make your drums sound slightly bigger costing £36 apiece becomes the norm, then some of us hobbyists won't be buying many apps next year, and a lot of devs will earn even less than they do now.

But hey, give it a twirl, encourage all developers to ramp up their prices and see what happens.

Amen. I have a disability and live on a low income, for those in work with decent income higher prices no probs, you want to kill my hobby fine, then I must move from music to creative writing, only need a pen or tablet.