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Comments
...> @sigma79 said:
Here's a very basic explainer how to "offload" (and not delete) apps:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201656
I’m reasonably confident that the multisampler will be included. I think that engine powers a large percentage of the patches in GarageBand and Logic, so it’ll be pretty necessary if they want to make claims about round-trip compatibility (or even just compatibility with the content packs). I’m sure the engine also powers the built-in piano, electric piano, clav and organ instruments (and others).
Do you have a list of only IAA apps that could be off load ?
i‘m courios if some of logics „biggest“ plugins finally got a (badly needed) UI overhaul or if they just left them out. Stuff like Sculpture, ES1/2, the Drummachine etc doesn‘t look touch friendly at all. Yes,they“could“ work- other companies would just painless port them (looking at you sugar bytes) but that would not match Apples design/interface philosophy. And i always hated these designs, also on a mac they are not inspirtional/fun to use
Yeah. I hope that they have so that they will come to Logic Pro X on desktop. Would be quite an update.
Yep, some of the stuff in Logic is bordering on the totally hideous, UI nightmares from Hell.
That’s partly why I gave up using it on desktop. At least on iOS I can use all my lovely AI apps with it.
As I’m waiting for Logic IOS I keep thinking about how (relatively) little resources were put into DAWs like Cubasis, Zenbeats, etc… I’m thinking about audio editing and flex/warping. Something that’s been available in desktop daws for quite a while.
One would think it takes a tremendous effort to implement. One that wouldn’t be justified by the size and income of the iOS music market. Ok, BUT.
Auria had it years ago.
More surprisingly, we have Neon editor auv3 that can do audio editing, transient detection, warping and all the lot. It has more audio editing capabilities than all iOS daws combined!. And it’s done by just one guy (4pockets Paul)!.
So if Paul could do it single handedly. Why haven’t Roland, Steinberg or any of the other iOS daws done it in all this time?. Wasn’t there a demand for these features?. Unlikely. Audio editing and proper bussing in a daw was the missing piece on iOS, as were more than covered in the instruments and fx.
When will the reviews drop?
at 09:41
Comparing these large companies to a one-man operation doesn't really make sense - It's much easier to steer a tiny hatchback than a huge cruise-ship. There's likely very little standing in the way between the conceptualisation of an idea in Paul's mind, and the realisation of the finished product, save of course for the programming itself (And general life, notwithstanding). But in the case of large companies such as Roland, these things are not assured. And even when they are, there's a huge amount of red-tape and inertia to overcome.
Also, there's a big difference between independent apps, designed for very specific (limited, even) purposes, and DAW. Paul has the freedom to throw any and every feature into his apps, without necessarily having to consider the bigger picture of the overall environment in a way that is necessary for DAW. This is the case for desktop DAW, but even more so when considering touchscreen DAW.
Not everybody is interested in an 'Everything but the kitchen-sink' DAW. Feature-creep and bloat can easily ruin software, which has to strike the right balance between workflow, features and in such a way as to hinder often-volatile inspiration. Too may menus, too many icons...Just too much distraction can create an environment that stifles immediacy and spontaneity, especially on such small screens.
When it comes to Roland and Steinberg, I believe these same things apply, but there're other things to consider as well.
Cubasis and LE seemed to always be the first steps towards an inevitable Cubase purchase. Perhaps Steinberg never saw enough monetary compensation to deem it worthwhile for Cubase to become any more than a way to bring new users to a full desktop Cubase license. Perhaps they knew how fickle a market this is (It took mere minutes before the news of Logic Pro led to people proclaiming the death of Cubasis etc.). And perhaps we're already such a niche market that the element within that niche, who wished for full-blown desktop abilities, was not big enough to make it worth the extra investment.
And Roland seem to have struck a great balance between features and inspiring tools, with cross-platform compatibility, that also works as a front-end to a store full of synth history goodies.
Who knows...Perhaps, the existence of Paul's audio editor was the very thing that made these other DAW companies think it was not worth them also doing. For those who wanted that extra functionality, dropping the 4P editor into a plugin slot seems like a perfect solution.
Just speculating, of course. Whatever the reasons, I don't think an easy comparison to Apple and LP can be made.
I would keep them all. In the end it’s a matter of taste and Interface.
You can produce amazing songs with Logic plugins/instruments only. But if you got used to eg FabFilter Pro-Q then it can feel a bit awkward to use the Logic EQ.
Plugin effects that I find outstanding in Logic are the compressor (many types included), stereo delay (easy to use), chromaverb (lush ambient algo verbs), space designer (IR stuff). Other included plugs are also useful. Tremolo or sample delay for stereo width.
Instruments in Logic I mostly use are synths, drums and sometimes studio brass or strings. But other sampled acoustic instruments are not always top notch or outdated / very limited.
This is my hope, too. The old Logic UIs are just terrrible. Ultrabeat is unusable. Sculpture sounds good, but I hate the UI, same with Delay Designer. It's a shame. I wonder who decided on the "everything in a circle, tiny text, sci-fi spaceship" interfaces in Logic?
I get the feeling the plugins never updated in Logic won't appear in the iPad version (and won't ever be updated for desktop).
So, if an old UI is a sign of abandonment, these effect plugins might not make the cut:
Delay Designer
Enveloper
Multipressor
EVOC 20 filterbank
EVOC 20 track oscillator
Stereo Spread
Ringshifter
Pitch Correction
Vocal Transformer
SubBass
There are 35 "stompboxes" in Logic, I never use them. They have cartoon graphics, I guess those will be included?
And these instruments might not make the cut:
EFM1 (fm synth)
ESE (ensemble synth)
ESM (mono synth)
EVOC 20 PS (vocoder synth)
Sculpture (modeling synth)
Ultrabeat (drum machine)
The Logic instruments that have gotten facelifts are not bad I guess. Alchemy is good, Drummer is probably good (I use other drum software), maybe Retro Synth doesn't suck too bad. The samplers are good, but most of the included sample content is very old and not good. I'm not a huge fan of the Studio Strings and Horns, I think it's the same stuff found in Garageband. And I HATE Drum Machine Designer, but I won't get into that here.
Hmmmm...What I think, after looking over all these Logic desktop plugins, is that Logic effects are very good, and besides Alchemy (and Sculpture), Logic instruments are average or not so good.
Erf? Heh
Think that all users, including me, agree, some UIs need serious refreshing. Sometimes I feel Logic not very logical 😂
Ooops!
Thanks. I'll set a reminder.
Just as you can't expect Logic Pro to run well on a minimum-spec Macintosh, you should not expect it to run well on a minimum spec iPad. The whole idea with "pro" apps is that they're not developed to the lowest common denominator. That's what GarageBand is. If you're running an iPad with 3GB RAM and 256GB of storage or less, you should not expect the same experience as on an iPad Pro with 16GB RAM and 1TB of storage, that's just the facts. Apple wants people to get Logic, sure, but they also want to sell iPad Pros. Logic may run on an iPad mini (I honestly don't know), but don't expect to see that in any of their marketing materials, and don't expect that to be a great user experience.
Although I’m pretty sure that Logic Pro for iPad will be an full fledged version of Logic Pro, I’m thinking a lot of thoughts around if Logic Pro for iPad ISN’T a desktop-Logic version as expected…
Will people then just download the one month demoperiod an then leave Logic Pro?
I feel that Logic Pro for iPad MUST be Pro level software, or, me too is skipping Logic Pro for iPad and continue using my Mac version of LPX…
The same goes for features into Logic - will that be any Sculpture? Will we get the EXT24 Sampler (not only Quick Sampler)?
Will we get every detail on Logic from the desktop version?
Six days left…
I disagree. If my computer hadn't started running into heat issues, the last couple of years, I'd still be able to do everything I needed with my 2012 Macbook Pro. more than that, I could happily make all the music I make with the bottom-of-the-line Mac Mini, with 8GB ram and minimal internal storage.
it was quite a few years ago when Apple introduced 'Track Freeze' to Logic. Along with Bounce-in-place and the ability to turn off instrument and FX resources, without actually having to remove the plugins, and we have a few options to reduce both CPU and memory footprint.
While it's true that the lower-spec'd models won't be able to have huge templates, with everything running simultaneously, it's possible to be able to make tracks with all the same elements.
Essentially, if there're enough resources to make a piece with one track, it's possible to make a song with 100 tracks.
I strongly agree with this.
The stomp boxes will be there for sure, they're already present in GarageBand. I think some of those plugins will get a UI refresh because they're too useful to just abandon, especially the effects. I think the "ES" synths are meant to be replaced by Retro Synth but that doesn't cover EVOC 20 PS or Sculpture, so hopefully those two will get a UI refresh. I suspect Drum Machine Designer is intended to replace Ultrabeat, which is frankly too bad; I don't think it's as powerful for sound design. But yeah, that Ultrabeat UI is awful. All those legacy UIs are awful, and it seems like if Apple cared it would not take all that much effort to redesign them, but we've been living with them for a long time now.
As much as these older interfaces are very outdated, they do have a certain charm. Some of the more modern interfaces I find not only bland, but nauseating in the case of 'Space' and 'Phat'. Seriously...what's with that colour scheme
And the new Samplers just seem so washed-out and soul-less:
They got Chromaverb right, though. So weird for a company like Apple to not have settled on a much more cohesive visual language for Logic.
...but you did start running into heat issues, so you can't do everything you need with a 2012 MacBook Pro. That doesn't actually refute my point at all.
Maybe, if you're willing to tie yourself in knots with freezing tracks and bounce-in-place and so on. But that's not the ideal use case which Apple intends for Logic Pro. Again, none of the above actually refutes my point. I mean, absolutely, you can install and run Logic on a minimum-spec Mac mini. But you're not going to have the same user experience as someone on a Mac Studio or a high-end MacBook, or even a Mac mini with more RAM and storage. You're going to spend a lot of time working around the limitations of the hardware.
Not sure why you'd assume the heat issues were anything to do with Logic. But they weren't
I didn't say the user-experience would be the same. But in your initial point, neither did you. You said not to expect Logic to run well on a minimum-spec iPad. It will. If it didn't, Apple would not risk including the lowest-spec of their line-up with the rest.
I did some testing on that 2012 laptop, not long before it getting replaced. From memory, I was able to run between 3 and 400 instances of (I believe), before 'System Overload' stopped playback. Alternatively, I could run just over 100 instances of Omnisphere or 20 instances of Repro 5. This on a 2012 2.33 i7 chip.
The MacBook Pro (15-inch Mid 2012) benchmarks came in at 681for the Single-Core Score and 2338 for the Multi-Core. My current iPad 9th-Gen comes in at 1685 for Single-Core and 3684 for Multi-Core. Clearly the base-model iPad is more powerful...and by a large margin.
And while there is a large difference in RAM, none of those tests were RAM-heavy enough to make a dent. So until such a time as hugely multi-sampled libraries become the norm on iPad, I doubt there's any need for worry...even with 3GB of RAM (An amount I used in production for years).
All this to say that I suspect the available CPU-per-project headroom to cover what most of us would likely be attempting to run on iPad. Do I expect to be running 3-400 instances of ES2? Nope. Even if the iPad has more CPU, we don't know in which ways the current CPU architecture compares.
And if that upper ceiling happens to be hit, then hitting 'Freeze' on a few odd tracks, I wouldn't call that tying myself in knots
I'm sure those who use Garageband on various platforms have more of an idea of how CPU and memory loads compare. But either way, we should be able to test it ourselves, in T-Minus...
“AI IMAGE GENERATOR - MAKE ME A SYNTHESIZER THAT LOOKS LIKE A BEATEN UP, ABANDONED, 1970’S SOVIET SPACE STATION BUILT FROM GREY PLASTIC!! “
When I was design lead for another, well-known US corporate, I had to regularly tackle directors and project managers in other departments who’d decided to upload their own, amateur graphics onto the company website, in total disregard to corporate styling or indeed, professional quality.
It was a whack-a-mole experience, with mates in my team sneaking into the office early to remove the offending graphics.
I can only guess the design lead for Logic either didn’t have the authority, or balls to ensure a house style was adhered to. Or maybe they didn’t have a design lead, and stuff was just added by random design teams and no-one at Apple really cared….
Sounds like a fun job
I don't buy Apple not caring, though. Apple are the 'form-over-function' kings. Aesthetic is EVERYTHING!!
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd have imagined that at Apple a 'design lead' wouldn't really have the authority to "Yay!" or "Nay!" the final designs. I doubt even Jony Ive has the last word on designs, during his time there. But maybe I'm wrong. You no doubt would have more of an idea than me.
Either way, it's a mess
What do you think.
Might still be able to return an ipad 9.
If I buy an air 5.
It will be an Air 5. Ipad 9. Air 3 combo.
Ipad 9. Drums. Plus some background apps.
Air 3 samples.
Air 5 ( logic ) synths and then audio tracks of the other ipads transfered.
An ipad 9 might be ok as system is using multi ipads.
but with synths plus additional audio tracks via a logic main hub.
Might still need air 5.
but it means deciding before logic is out. Plus not convinced about air 5 quality. usbc. Plus its probably 4-6 gb ram? I guess still quite better than ipad 9.
With usbc. Not sure about best way to charge. Either kept charging or be mindful of charge cycles. Is it a case of it maybe staying at charge level when connected to audo interface and then just disconnect from interface and connect to mains plug, if deciding to charge without audio interface on. Or if interface has a rest mode.
Usbc seems lame for charge/routing.
I assume a usbc cable is for audio, charge plus midi data?
A design lead, art director, whatever, should be in place to ensure the company’s visual output - whether it’s packaging, website design, print/digital promotion etc. adheres to corporate branding guidelines. As well as establishing a recognisable house style, it makes it easier for other departments to create their own graphics.
So for example I would create branding guidelines which included everything from logo usage to font styles, as well as a shared depository of templates, images etc. for web, print, etc. usage.
Of course directors from other departments tried to make their own stamp on their particular teams range - “can you make my section bigger, with brighter colours, and blinking text?” No. So you have to be firm, but ultimately sometimes some dick higher up the food chain will overrule you.
When I worked for another company who had a range of software titles, UI, icons etc., were added to the style guidelines, to produce a suite of products with a consistent look and feel.
To my eyes, Logic looks like something that has been cobbled together over the years, with zero thought towards any kind of consistency. New bits get a nice new design, while the older stuff is just bunged back in. It’s probably one of the reasons I gave up on it - completely uninspiring to look at.
Just goes to show Apple aren’t always the design gods people make them out to be.
Think I will try swapping ipads.
The multicore air 5 being multicore should be usable for longer?
Multicore should be available with other daws than cubasis, at some point?
Hard screens give me slight anxiety after air 3 would always need a factory reset.
Soft screen also seems somewhat of a drum surface. Although would be using a launchpad x.