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My thoughts on Logic Pro 2 weeks post release...
I really like Logic Pro a lot, but...I still find it rather cumbersome to get an idea up and off the ground. After the first week, I figured "well, I'm still learning the software, it'll take some time", but honestly I was just as slow in the second week as I was in the first week.
So, this is what I did on my iPad Mini 6. I have deleted Pure Synth Platinum off of here (was about 30gb of storage space on a 256gb device), and I have installed the rest of the Korg ecosystem on here (Gadget, its IAPs, and the rest of the Gadget-compatible apps and their IAPs). To be quite honest, I'm much quicker at coming up with music in Gadget. Plus I missed the heck out of iMono/Poly. Honestly there's no synth like it on iOS.
So what about Logic Pro then? Well, when I create an instrumental track, it'll be mixed in Gadget but mastered in Logic Pro. When I create a vocal track, I will create the instrumental, bounce the stems, import into Logic Pro, record my vocals and process those with Brusfri and either Vocal Tune Studio or Bleass Voices, then mix everything down, and then master the track. EPs? Yes, mastered in Logic Pro.
The built-in tools and plugins Logic Pro comes with are absolutely some of the best I've had the pleasure working with. It's that Logic Pro isn't fast enough for my rapid-fire brain when my brain concocts ideas on the fly. 😂 Thank goodness for Gadget.
Comments
Haha, why would Logic Pro be better on iOS than the desktop version? 😉
After being used to Logic on a 65” screen it’s a little hard for me to use it on iOS at all. 😂
That and Drambo has ruined almost everything else for me.
I am just starting on my second week and I am thinking the same thoughts as you. It’s buzzkill on the creative process. I too will give it another week to see if I can find a workflow that lets me get to what I want to hear quicker. I will offer a couple of pain points in LP…. Midi editing is super powerful in a couple ways but completely lacking in others. Most glaring is the inability to even see velocities separate from notes, never mind being able to edit them en mass. E.g. simply draw a crescendo. And I have not yet found a way to simply quantize or set absolute note lengths or ends on multiple notes. Sometimes you just want every note to be 2 beats long. Getting tired of editing these things one note at a time. There is the clunkiness of re-opening the midi editor everytime you want to go back to it - needs 2 menu selections. NS2 blows LP out of the water for midi editing, which is what I mostly do. Maybe LP will improve on these issues, but in the meantime I will plug away at it for another week or so. Your experience does not give me much hope. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I feel the same way about Gadget, lol. I just can't live without it, and goodness knows I've tried. I finally caved. 😆
There it is. You put to words my EXACT thoughts about the MIDI situation. Yeah, the MIDI in Logic IS powerful in some aspects I will agree with that, but not to beat around the bush about it mate, it really sucks overall, lol. 😂
For any DAW app, I'd say NS2's piano roll is the one to aspire to. The one in Gadget is somewhat fiddly, but I can edit just fine within it and create those crescendos and such (like for "snare roll ups" in a cheesy neo-90s EDM track, etc). And I can get my ideas down swiftly in Gadget, and it's just a load of fun. And while you can only draw automation in Gadget rather than point-by-point automation, it feels like sculpting and molding the automation really. Gadget has every last sound and synth I could possibly want on iOS! Where creating a new idea takes about 60+ minutes in Logic Pro, it takes 15-20 minutes in Gadget tops to create a similar arrangement.
That said, if mixing stems and mastering stuff is your main aim with Logic, you'll be hard pressed to find a better DAW for the task in my opinion. Easy drag-and-drop from Files or Sample Crate, top quality mixing and mastering tools baked into the software, and so on and so forth. But if creating new music with MIDI in a "real DAW" is your aim, yeah, you may as well cancel that subscription and use something that's actually fun and not homework. 😆 Lol.
It would be amazing if the gadget crossgrade was done for LP on iPad like on the Mac.
you just realised what i saw from first second - Logic UI on iPad is just bad.. from clunky and cumbersome in sime parts, to absolute mess in other parts... especially the part where you need all the time resize some window to get enough space and it even doesn't remember size you used and next time it opens it always in other size.. or the side bar view which roll sin always when you add new instrument.. and tons of other details.. it's UI is just plain fail ...
It's ok if you make simple music - few loops, not much automations, stuff like that .. as soon as you want to get complex, the UI is just plain bad
Gadget is great. My second most favourite iOS production tool.. It just works, UI is simple, straightforward, well optimalised for small touch screen. It's a pity Korg abandoned it and we will probably never see sny more update, but well it is what it is and what is there is powerfull enough to have fun for years ..
Nah, I didn't just realise it. I figured "Oh I'll just get used to it", lol. Figured it was all part of the learning curve. Instead it's just a bit sh*te.
Not even for simple music. Lol. Logic is great for a mixdown and mastering session and recording vocals. But for simple music that's MIDI driven, it really sucks.
Korg didn't abandon Gadget mate. They still maintain it. ☺️ And it's very solid and stable, and it just works. NS2 is also maintenance-only, and it's super solid and stable. Oftentimes stability is king when it comes to software updates. And so long as Korg keeps adding expansions to Module Pro, I'll keep buying to support them and also to have new sounds to play with!
I view Gadget and NS2 as complete products that will hopefully last for years to come.
So an entire month of gushing turned into a “meh…could be better”?
Your point is?
I’m asking. I haven’t gotten logic yet.
Ah. Well yeah I was completely psyched for Logic. The missing features like Flex Pitch dismayed me, but I figured "Wow I'm using the same software a lot of producers I look up to use!" That fascination fueled my creativity and desire to hurdle over the learning curve. And now that fascination has subsided lol.
Great for mixing and mastering. Not so great for MIDI programming. I mean to be fair Logic's piano roll isn't as bad as Auria Pro's piano roll lol. But it's just too fiddly and exhausting. 😅
well, for that i rather grab Cubasis
No doubt i do not argue .. i like Gadget and as i said what is there is enough for years of use. I just know history of Korg - ina many cases in past they just created some platform, released few great updates and then switched to "forget it" mode ... So i am expecting it will be same with Gadget and i would be very surprised about any major update in future, except of small IAP updates in form of more content for Module and stuff like that. Not expecting development of new features for Gadget itself ..
But maybe they surprise. Just, considering their past, i would not bet on it.
Yup, you know me.. again, i didn't want to say anything about "missing features" - i rarely use this term
Gadget is fantastic groovebox, zero doubt about that, it's one of most close experiences to HW grooveboxes from all iOS apps. For example i actully like that in defail view synth itself gets most of screen space (and even can be maximalised) so you can much more concentrate just on looping and recording ideas live instead of clicking notes in piano roll.. it moves whole thing more to how i use HW, and that is something i really like.
For anybody bothered by that, add a new track and tap the … icon and just set instrument to none and turn off the browser. That makes adding new tracks much better imo.
Not going to argue about any other of your points… your mind was made up before you started. It’s ok not to like something.
@klownshed
That speed will come with familiarity, like with any complex DAW.
Having said that, it is a bit cumbersome compared to Logic on the Mac and always will be for me, but the iPad is cumbersome in general. It’s quicker and easier to do simple things on the iPad but complex tasks are usually way easier for me on the Mac in general. Ignoring audio So many easy things on the Mac are cumbersome on the ipad.
Apps like gadget are great because they’re so stripped down and focussed. Which is a good thing. Hopefully Korg will get round to making all their synths auv3. Logic is a different beast. Obviously.
The ipad excels when things are simple and focussed and the UI is laid out before you.
Logic on iPad is cumbersome but it’s still less cumbersome for me than any other ipad DAWs as I don’t need to learn the ‘logic way’.
I'm in the same situation. My current conclusion is "perhaps I don't need a DAW on the iPad then - AUM and Loopy are so much more fun than this, and for logic there's the Mac". We'll see, I'm still weeks away from the end of the trial.
After years trying to make the iPad be what I wanted it to be I pretty much gave up on it for making music.
as soon as I got an M1 MacBook Pro the iPad took a back seat. My Intel MacBook was hot and had crappy battery life. It didn’t spring to life like an iPad. The fans were noisy. And my MBP was 16”. All these factors made it annoying to use on the sofa. The iPad fixed all these hardware issues. But I never had a software environment on the iPad that I was productive in.
Then the M1 MacBook fixed all the hardware issues of the Intel MBP in an instant. Tons of power, instant iPad like wake up, doesn’t get hot and the battery doesn’t crap out on me.
So the iPad got relegated to the back shelf.
Now that LP4iP exists I’m thinking that it can now be a way to mix things up in a different environment with a different selection of plugins. I don’t need it but it’s nice to play with different toys and the iPad with all its cool apps (just because Logic exists doesn’t mean you can’t still use AUM etc!)
And it completely removes the friction of them getting song ideas into the Mac.
I like using the iPad to mess around with apps, maybe just load up iElectribe and make drum loops for half an hour or so for example.
Previously I’d dump any half decent loops into a folder and load them in BlocsWave on my iPhone to play about with.
I think Live Loops will end up being the killer feature for me in Logic for iPad.
Once you’re in Live Loops mode everything I need is in front of me and multitouch makes it a better experience than on the mac.
Any cumbersome-ness disappears and you can jam around with your arrangement mixing and matching parts etc.
And if I don’t use it it won’t cost me anything. I can dip in and out of a sub as needed (although I’ll probably sub for the first year anyway — that will encourage me to use my iPad and get some benefits from the huge amount of money I’ve spend on iPad synths and Fx I’ve literally never used!
)
Nice write up. So far i am finding Logic on the iPad a real joy to use. It’s like the last 7 years of making music on the iPad has all led up to this.
The synths, drums, effects and workflow just clicks. Maybe it’s novelty but I’m at around 2 grooves a day since it’s release which is how Drambo inspired me when it came out so Logic Pro has broken past the barrier most apps don’t pass for me.
I’m using Logic on the desktop more as well as a result which has also been inspiring.
Kind of a bummer to see Logic becoming a resounding “meh” for a lot of people but I gotta agree. If I want a DAW workflow to actually make tracks (which I don’t do often), Zenbeats and C3 are much easier and less clunky for me. Zenbeats especially is very quick and fun, imo.
But nothing will compare with AUM and Loopy Pro for me. They both fit my workflow exactly and it’s the most fun and inspiring way to make music on ipad, in my experience. So like you, I think I’ll mostly be using it as a mastering tool. Maybe dumping some stems in and using the built in instruments and loops to add some flourishes. But I absolutely can’t see myself making full tracks from scratch with it.
Even more mastering, there’s a chance I’ll end up sticking with C3 there as well, but I’m still diving into all the mastering tricks LPx has to offer
Agreed about Gadget though! It’s so fun and quick to get good ideas going. And once you have all - or even some - of the IAPs, it makes it even better. I don’t have Mono/Poly yet and there’s still 2-3 IAPs I haven’t bought, but I always have a blast every time I use it and I almost always come up with something I like.
Not too bad, thanks man!
Gadget still has its solid place on my iPhone. Fire up and go when melodies surround my head. Backed by great drum and bass riffs from Stockholm. And endless synth presets, including lovely memories of my first synth, a MonoPoly. Those were the days 😅
For me it's almost like Drambo=Left brain, Gadget=Right brain.
For me Logic Pro for iPad feels like 'coming home' but on a deeper inspection it feels like a burglary has taken place while I was away...
...the conspiratory side of me can't but help to think that part of Apples 'Plan' here is to 'Start on the iPad, Finish on the Mac'
I mean the automation editor is missing one value (Velocity) that is present on the desktop.
QuickSampler is missing 'Record' which again is present in both iOS GarageBand and QuickSampler on Mac.
The 'Browser' has no way to browse audio events within the project and we can't add our favorite locations in the Browser for easy import with preview etc.
Also 'advanced' audio editing like normalize and destructive trim is missing...
Time will tell where things go and I'll give it a year...
Cheers!
So I take it no sub from you at this time?
I’m still undecided. I think I’m gonna pay for a month to dive in a bit more but I honestly think what I already have is enough.
For me the following list of features/functions has really supercharged my workflow:
Live Loops
Step Sequencer
Melodic Step Sequencer
Studio Class effects
Midi Piano Roll
Sample Slicing
Complex Sample Stretching
32+/- Channel Bus Routing
Sequencer Pattern Library
Alchemy Sampler
Per Track/Step Sequencer Playback Parameters
External Instrument sequencing
Midi to Audio Bounce
Once i started using these it illuminated my workflow possibilities. The entirety of what I have wanted on iPadOS for music making is basically housed in Logic. I have BM3+Gadget+Drambo+NS2+AUM+LoopyPro type tools i use regularly all in Logic as I’ve been learning it which just inspires me.
If iPadOS music making has taught me anything, it’s to be adaptive to new workflows, and have the patience to understand them in order to optimize them the way i like to make music…and the music is pouring out so far which is why i love iPadOS 🙏🏼🎚️
Timeline DAW paradigm hasn’t even been universal on desktop since Live appeared. Though I suppose Logic has spread in the clip-launcher direction. But different strokes for different folks, eh? Logic has upped the ante for a timeline DAW on iOS, which for at least a year or 2 has definitely been the weak point on iOS. I’m now even thinking that AUM might be in my future as jamming could be about to become more of a thing for me.
I personally agree that the UI in NS2 is way better than Logic, however NS2 is an incomplete app so it doesn't really compete. If NS2 ever got audio tracks it would probably be the best DAW on the platform, but that is unlikely to ever happen so in the meantime we have to work with what we have.
The constant tapping and resizing of windows in Logic is a bit tiresome, but ultimately that's a very minor irritation that will soon become second nature and forgotten.
And there is no reason to stop using other apps like Gadget, NS2 etc... Projects can be started in one app and finished in another. That's something some of us have been doing for years anyway, it's not that cumbersome.
This about Live Loops on iPad is a very good point. I hadn’t thought of it, why I’ve switched to working with loop clips, be it Loopy Pro, Zenbeats or now Logic. And you’re totally right that the iPad touch surface is perfect for working with clip loops. Where linear arrangement is clunky on the iPad and a lot easier with a mouse, clip loops are more inmediate and fun on an iPad.
I’m really glad Logic has a loop mode. And it’s actually pretty good!.
One of the aspects that bother me most about Logic iPad is how it’s extremely preset-centric. To me that’s quite the opposite of “pro”. It’s annoying how the “default” way is to start from whatever sound and then replace stuff. It sort of pushes you to start from a preset and then replace your way into whatever auv3 you were going to use. Where in AUM or Loopy there’s joy in creating an empty track and opening up the auv3 selector (“what now….let’s see what we got “ moment) in logic it’s sort of hidden like a secondary action. Like it’s saying “we got all these presets and reggeaton packs why would you want a 5€ auv3 on this?. Go ahead, whatever, you’ll find it in the back drawer”.
Just set it to your preferred Init patch of your preferred auv3 instrument then. You can customize that via the “…” in the New Track picker on each of 4 Types you have available. That’s an amazing feature btw. Hope it helps you over that hiccup when starting a new instrument track 👊🏼🎚️
It doesn’t have to.
When I add an instrument track in Logic it gives me a blank slate where I can add instruments and effects. No browser. No presets.
Just like using AUM.
Took me all of 2 seconds to set that as my default.