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My thoughts on Logic Pro 2 weeks post release...

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Comments

  • MrSmileZMrSmileZ
    edited June 2023

    Ok hello all,
    I have not experienced Logic on iPad yet (because I am on a first gen iPad Pro and I just bought an osmose so the wife might kill me if I purchase a new iPad too suddenly hahaha)
    I will be buying another iPad soon.

    My question: does Logic on iPad have screen sets? It does on Mac, but I understand some features didn’t make the cut.
    If it does have screen sets a lot of your big issues up in the thread will be fixed, as they are mostly size of focus issues.

    I would also think that because Logic Pro on iPad is indeed a sub, they will probably update it fairly often to keep subscribers (as you can ditch it at anytime)

    *i also read a few compared to nanostudio posts, how? Nanostudio in no way competes with Logic Pro (even this scaled down version). Nanostudio doesn’t have and probably will never have audio tracks…that is why I erased it from my iPad. I was just curious about that, Dendy, as I know that you are heavily biased to Nanostudio (and it’s fine to have heroes). Cubasis would be the best app to compare Logic Pro to, or Auria, zenbeats, or even Beatmaker 3….

    I would consider nanostudio more of a groovebox, as it only does midi tracks and plug ins.
    I would consider gadget a closed wall groovebox as it does audio poorly, and only does Korg effects and instruments.
    So on and so forth.

    Make sure to be clear for people making buying choices looking for a Daw, that nanostudio IS NOT a DAW. Customers would be upset finding out it isn’t so. I understand totally about use cases and preferences and have no issues with people loving what they love to use. I just think if somebody new is checking the threads and wanting advice some of these alternatives won’t cut the cake at everyone’s birthday party.

    I’m just over here hoping for screen sets.
    But loving I can use Logic pro’s plug ins on the go…so I will have to gel with it.
    I’m going to go see if the pdf manual is up yet.

  • SamuSamu

    @MrSmileZ said:

    I’m going to go see if the pdf manual is up yet.

    https://help.apple.com/pdf/logicproipad/en_US/logic-pro-ipad-user-guide.pdf

  • MrSmileZMrSmileZ

    TY Samu!

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @Edward_Alexander said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Edward_Alexander said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @dendy said:
    @klownshed

    any chance you have 12.9” pro ? from screenshots it looks like on big screen the UI may be completely ok .. maybe problem is simply i have just Air .. on Air it’s endless frustrating resizing of windows most of time (during which it often crashes, that’s another topic). I really deeply not understand how this may be acceptable for somebody …

    I can see how on 12.9” it may be very different experience

    Personally on 12.9 I find the UI absolutely fine. The only thing is that it is a bit sluggish at times, opening auv3s full screen. I'm on an M1 so I can't imagine how much worse this could be on devices with older chips

    I haven’t experienced any “sluggishness” at all, and I think I’m using the same hardware; 12.9” M1 w/1TB (16GB RAM)

    Do you have the 1 or 2 TB model Gav? (I know the models with smaller storage sizes have only 8 GB)

    Check this (unlisted) vid using Beat Scholar:

    Ah, but isn’t that just Beat Scholar itself being sluggish though? I saw it mentioned in the Beat Scholar thread that the app’s resizing features were having issues.

    I haven’t tried Beat Scholar in Logic yet, but it’s on my todo list.

    May be so. I think it happened with other apps but can't be sure

  • richardyotrichardyot

    @MrSmileZ no Screen Sets in the iOS version of Logic at the moment.

  • SamuSamu
    edited June 2023

    @Gavinski said:

    May be so. I think it happened with other apps but can't be sure

    It happens mostly on AUv3's with heavy use of OpenGL where almost all UI rendering is done inside a loop.
    Don't know yet if Juce has been updated to Metal or if it's till using OpenGL...

  • MrSmileZMrSmileZ

    @richardyot said:
    @MrSmileZ no Screen Sets in the iOS version of Logic at the moment.

    Yea I’m not seeing it in the manual 🙁
    Bummer, I’m also not seeing the groove quantize from Mac Logic Pro either…also sigh

    Maybe they will surface over time? Updates should be rather Consistent in a subscription model…or people will drop subs

  • SamuSamu

    @MrSmileZ said:

    Maybe they will surface over time? Updates should be rather Consistent in a subscription model…or people will drop subs

    Quite sure that will happen...
    ...it'll either be new content (we only get ~15GB for starters from the total 70GB+ on the desktop) or features.

    I'll give it a year for starters as it 'saves' me two months :sunglasses:

  • ervinervin

    @Gavinski said:

    @Edward_Alexander said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Edward_Alexander said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @dendy said:
    @klownshed

    any chance you have 12.9” pro ? from screenshots it looks like on big screen the UI may be completely ok .. maybe problem is simply i have just Air .. on Air it’s endless frustrating resizing of windows most of time (during which it often crashes, that’s another topic). I really deeply not understand how this may be acceptable for somebody …

    I can see how on 12.9” it may be very different experience

    Personally on 12.9 I find the UI absolutely fine. The only thing is that it is a bit sluggish at times, opening auv3s full screen. I'm on an M1 so I can't imagine how much worse this could be on devices with older chips

    I haven’t experienced any “sluggishness” at all, and I think I’m using the same hardware; 12.9” M1 w/1TB (16GB RAM)

    Do you have the 1 or 2 TB model Gav? (I know the models with smaller storage sizes have only 8 GB)

    Check this (unlisted) vid using Beat Scholar:

    Ah, but isn’t that just Beat Scholar itself being sluggish though? I saw it mentioned in the Beat Scholar thread that the app’s resizing features were having issues.

    I haven’t tried Beat Scholar in Logic yet, but it’s on my todo list.

    May be so. I think it happened with other apps but can't be sure

    It happened to me with multiple apps, Ifretless bass is the one I remember as it was the most ridiculous 🙂, almost like an animation on its own. M1 iPad Pro

  • GavinskiGavinski

    Yeah think it happened to me with more than one app too. I've never ever had any heavy sessions in Logic iPad so I find this pretty unacceptable. Is it the apps' fault or Logic's fault? I have no idea. But never ever ever came across this kind of problem in any other host app

    @ervin said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Edward_Alexander said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Edward_Alexander said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @dendy said:
    @klownshed

    any chance you have 12.9” pro ? from screenshots it looks like on big screen the UI may be completely ok .. maybe problem is simply i have just Air .. on Air it’s endless frustrating resizing of windows most of time (during which it often crashes, that’s another topic). I really deeply not understand how this may be acceptable for somebody …

    I can see how on 12.9” it may be very different experience

    Personally on 12.9 I find the UI absolutely fine. The only thing is that it is a bit sluggish at times, opening auv3s full screen. I'm on an M1 so I can't imagine how much worse this could be on devices with older chips

    I haven’t experienced any “sluggishness” at all, and I think I’m using the same hardware; 12.9” M1 w/1TB (16GB RAM)

    Do you have the 1 or 2 TB model Gav? (I know the models with smaller storage sizes have only 8 GB)

    Check this (unlisted) vid using Beat Scholar:

    Ah, but isn’t that just Beat Scholar itself being sluggish though? I saw it mentioned in the Beat Scholar thread that the app’s resizing features were having issues.

    I haven’t tried Beat Scholar in Logic yet, but it’s on my todo list.

    May be so. I think it happened with other apps but can't be sure

    It happened to me with multiple apps, Ifretless bass is the one I remember as it was the most ridiculous 🙂, almost like an animation on its own. M1 iPad Pro

  • SamuSamu

    Considering the OpenGL ES has been deprecated since iOS12 days with zero new updates for advanced multi-threading etc. it's no wonder that apps that use OpenGL for the UI get a tad 'slow' :sunglasses:
    https://developer.apple.com/documentation/opengles

    One of the frameworks (JUCE) used by some plug-in developers porting their stuff from desktop to iOS still relies heavily on OpenGL with no proper Metal support in sight...

  • ervinervin

    @Gavinski said:
    Yeah think it happened to me with more than one app too. I've never ever had any heavy sessions in Logic iPad so I find this pretty unacceptable. Is it the apps' fault or Logic's fault? I have no idea. But never ever ever came across this kind of problem in any other host app

    @ervin said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Edward_Alexander said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Edward_Alexander said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @dendy said:
    @klownshed

    any chance you have 12.9” pro ? from screenshots it looks like on big screen the UI may be completely ok .. maybe problem is simply i have just Air .. on Air it’s endless frustrating resizing of windows most of time (during which it often crashes, that’s another topic). I really deeply not understand how this may be acceptable for somebody …

    I can see how on 12.9” it may be very different experience

    Personally on 12.9 I find the UI absolutely fine. The only thing is that it is a bit sluggish at times, opening auv3s full screen. I'm on an M1 so I can't imagine how much worse this could be on devices with older chips

    I haven’t experienced any “sluggishness” at all, and I think I’m using the same hardware; 12.9” M1 w/1TB (16GB RAM)

    Do you have the 1 or 2 TB model Gav? (I know the models with smaller storage sizes have only 8 GB)

    Check this (unlisted) vid using Beat Scholar:

    Ah, but isn’t that just Beat Scholar itself being sluggish though? I saw it mentioned in the Beat Scholar thread that the app’s resizing features were having issues.

    I haven’t tried Beat Scholar in Logic yet, but it’s on my todo list.

    May be so. I think it happened with other apps but can't be sure

    It happened to me with multiple apps, Ifretless bass is the one I remember as it was the most ridiculous 🙂, almost like an animation on its own. M1 iPad Pro

    Likewise. Very light sessions, and never saw this weirdness in any other host before.

  • dendydendy
    edited June 2023

    That slugishness of redrawing plugin UI was pretty much big problem also in Nanostudio 2 after first version was released.. most of you propably doesn't remember that but Ns had also this continuous animation between two sizes of plugin window and it was lagging exactly same way.. matt then removed the animation and made it quicky switch from one size to other size .. This is something which needs to be fixed by plugin dev, not within logic.. but often it means complete rewrite of UI code - which is not realistic - so easier is for host just don't do animations ...

    animations are abomination anyway, all those scrolling and continuous resizing are crap !
    👹

  • dendydendy
    edited June 2023

    @Samu said:
    Considering the OpenGL ES has been deprecated since iOS12 days with zero new updates for advanced multi-threading etc. it's no wonder that apps that use OpenGL for the UI get a tad 'slow' :sunglasses:
    https://developer.apple.com/documentation/opengles

    One of the frameworks (JUCE) used by some plug-in developers porting their stuff from desktop to iOS still relies heavily on OpenGL with no proper Metal support in sight...

    OpenGL is not problem, many games are still using OpenGL and they are perfectly fast.. this is about how UI is implemented.. what top level library layer is used for drawing elements... how efficiently is UI written

    whole NS2 has UI written using OpenGL yet it is super fast .. Open GL itself is good.. this is bad design of top level UI libraries build on upon bottom level gfx code, and just switching bottom level code from OpenGl to Metal would not change this at all, or just slightly..

  • SamuSamu

    @dendy said:

    OpenGL is not problem, many games are still using OpenGL and they are perfectly fast..

    At least one game I still occasionally play (Asphalt 8) on the AppleTV was ported over to use Metal when Metal was introduced years ago and the performance boost was simply insane.

    But yes it's a matter of implementation and how the UI rendering is done, synchronous drawing is simply nuts. (ie. one render loop which can't easily be spread to use multiple cores so it'll hog the resources).

    These things will get sorted out over time so no worries...

  • dendydendy
    edited June 2023

    well, i'm afraid this problem will not go away.. only realistic way is that apple just removes continuos resizing of plugin window (or at least disables ui during drag and then again re-enables it when drag event ends - that is how i would implement it in this case)

    i'm in doubt developers of plugins will invest significant amout time into complete rewriting of old plugins UI .. There are many plugins suffering by this issue (Pure Acid, Terra,.. )

    I hope for people who wansts to use Logic that Apple realises it's their turn to make compromise here ...

  • Antos3345Antos3345
    edited June 2023

    For me Logic Pro OS was like the hot girl everyone wanted, but then after a few weeks with her, she wasn’t for me;)

  • SamuSamu

    @dendy said:

    I hope for people who wansts to use Logic that Apple realises it's their turn to make compromise here ...

    Considering that SwiftUI is fully scalable (and fast when properly implemented) it's more likely that at some point in the future (2-3 years?) the use of SwiftUI will be one of the requirement for submitting apps to the AppStore, I mean sh*t has to run on the Apple Vision Pro FFS :sunglasses:

    We'll have to wait and see what happens...

  • ErrkaPettiErrkaPetti

    @Antos3345 said:
    For me Logic Pro IOS was like the hot girl everyone wanted, but then after a few weeks with her, she wasn’t for me;)

    Can we be correct here? It’s NOT iOS on our iPads, it’s iPadOS - very important differences…

  • dendydendy
    edited June 2023

    @Samu said:

    @dendy said:

    I hope for people who wansts to use Logic that Apple realises it's their turn to make compromise here ...

    Considering that SwiftUI is fully scalable (and fast when properly implemented) it's more likely that at some point in the future (2-3 years?) the use of SwiftUI will be one of the requirement for submitting apps to the AppStore, I mean sh*t has to run on the Apple Vision Pro FFS :sunglasses:

    We'll have to wait and see what happens...

    Yes , my bets are Logic UI is made using SwiftUI and sadly you can see the footprint - it handles a little bit less than Cubasis on same iPad, with same plugins and same buffer size - where Cubasis UI is still smooth, Logic UI is causing dropouts and stopping of playback.

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic

    @Antos3345 said:
    For me Logic Pro IOS was like the hot girl everyone wanted, but then after a few weeks with her, she wasn’t for me;)

    Oh buddy, I believe most of us have had "that girl" at one point in our lives, lol.

  • SamuSamu
    edited June 2023

    @dendy said:

    Yes , my bets are Logic UI is made using SwiftUI and sadly you can see the footprint - it handles a little bit less than Cubasis on same iPad, with same plugins and same buffer size - where Cubasis UI is still smooth, Logic UI is causing dropouts and stopping of playback.

    I'll happily make that 'trade off' and use Logic Pro for iPad when it comes to the total number of instances to be totally honest...
    ...In this case the extra instances are more likely related to the audio engine optimizations than the UI.

    I'll give it a year and do a long-term evaluation after that...

  • mjm1138mjm1138

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @realdawei said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @richardyot said:
    I think the Mixer window is the most frustrating UI element. You set your Mixer to full-screen, open a plugin which then shrinks the Mixer window down, and then when you exit the plugin the Mixer window is tiny so you have to resize it/maximise it. Even on a 12.9 that can get irritating.

    As a result I'm more inclined to select the plugins in the arranger view via the plugin tiles, at least then there isn't that constant need to resize the windows when you exit the plugin.

    This too, although this wasn't as big of an issue for me personally . But, at the end of the day, I still like how quick it is for me to master in Logic Pro. And Logic Pro seems to detect the latency of my airpods and automatically lines up the vocals for me the couple times I've tried vocal recording. Miraculous. :)

    Yeah, initially realising I needed to always drag to get the mixer sliders to open up properly was quite a shock. That did strike me as bad design for sure

    I'm sure a lot of this stuff will be fine-tuned in the future. Logic Pro for iPad is a rebuilt-from-the-ground-up version of the OG Logic Pro, so I'm assuming Apple will continue to fine tune things. :)

    Learned in one of the dev sessions that Swift was used to some extent in Logic and Final Cut for iPad…that’s gutsy

    That's rather interesting. :) Well, no matter what was used, so long as they continue to fine-tune the product to make it more enjoyable to use for music creation, that's what counts for me. :) I will stay subbed to Logic Pro for its amazing capabilities regarding recording, mixing, and mastering.

    Yeah I thought I saw something like that but I can't find the session any more. I thought it was about using SwiftUI for Pro Apps specifically. It explains a lot of the UI stuff, especially around the built-in plugins. The plugin UIs (to me) have the feel of all being based on a half-baked UI framework. This is an area where I hope to see significant improvements in upcoming versions. The whole deal where you change the orientation of your iPad and suddenly all the knobs on the plugin are rearranged is a little...wonky.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy that (almost) all the built-in plugins made it to iOS, and many of them were in dire need of a UI refresh. But some usability was lost from several of them, and the interface feels like a step backwards for some (the compressor plugin is a prime example of this in my mind).

    But it totally makes sense that the new UI is written in Swift. I'd be shocked if it wasn't.

  • MrSmileZMrSmileZ

    New iPad pro 12.9 m2 incoming, Logic Pro incoming.
    I’ve been using Logic Pro since emagic…so hopefully this new version for mobile will be inspiring?
    I’ve downloaded the manual
    Everything should be underway Monday evening.

    I have to get into this app, to be in practice for Logic Pro on Vision Xr

  • ervinervin

    @MrSmileZ said:
    New iPad pro 12.9 m2 incoming, Logic Pro incoming.
    I’ve been using Logic Pro since emagic…so hopefully this new version for mobile will be inspiring?
    I’ve downloaded the manual
    Everything should be underway Monday evening.

    I have to get into this app, to be in practice for Logic Pro on Vision Xr

    Pro tip: don't use your desktop-logic knowledge as benchmark, because that can lead to disappointment 🙂 enjoy and good luck!

  • MrSmileZMrSmileZ

    @ervin said:

    @MrSmileZ said:
    New iPad pro 12.9 m2 incoming, Logic Pro incoming.
    I’ve been using Logic Pro since emagic…so hopefully this new version for mobile will be inspiring?
    I’ve downloaded the manual
    Everything should be underway Monday evening.

    I have to get into this app, to be in practice for Logic Pro on Vision Xr

    Pro tip: don't use your desktop-logic knowledge as benchmark, because that can lead to disappointment 🙂 enjoy and good luck!

    I’m planning on treating this as a different approach entirely…like a second studio on the go.
    I can’t see it the same as the studio Daw as I have totally different plug ins etc
    I also know a few of the tools I use are missing.
    I’m seeing this like a Super Garageband or Garageband Pro

  • echooperaechoopera

  • dendydendy

    @ervin said:
    Pro tip: don't use your desktop-logic knowledge as benchmark, because that can lead to disappointment 🙂 enjoy and good luck!

    True story sir 🫡

  • ervinervin

    @MrSmileZ said:
    I’m seeing this like a Super Garageband or Garageband Pro

    We will get hell if the fanbois see our exchange but you're entirely correct. Treating it as "grown-up Garageband in a suit" is totally the way to go my friend 🤝

  • SamuSamu

    @ervin said:

    @MrSmileZ said:
    I’m seeing this like a Super Garageband or Garageband Pro

    We will get hell if the fanbois see our exchange but you're entirely correct. Treating it as "grown-up Garageband in a suit" is totally the way to go my friend 🤝

    LOL, What Hell?!
    We're all allowed to have our own opinions right?

    It's not even worthy to be called anything 'Pro' at this stage :sunglasses:

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