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WTF Will Smith?
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Exactly and that's how cancel culture works. It's very corrosive and divisive and is causing massive harm.
I agree. How are we to understand our similarities and differences without talking about them, in a respectful manner.
I apologize for my last post. I have no wish to fan an argument. I reacted, then thought better of it, but it was already quoted before I came back to delete it.
While I don’t agree with them, I respect the opinion of those who think race is relevant to this discussion.
I'm but a simple man: I see farts and pop/polka parodies, and I click, give a thumbs-up and subscribe
It isn’t cancel culture ,a term I despise and as I said you’re allowed an opinion just don’t expect it to carry much weight especially with those who have the experience.
It isn’t divisive to recognise someone’s lack of understanding of the nuances of a situation.
The problem is that too many people believe that opinions all carry equal importance. They don’t.
Stephen Hawking’s opinions on relativity would be much more relevant to a discussion on the subject than those of David Icke or Justin Timberlake.
Something we can both agree on.
Keep sharing your thoughts, man! As long as your motivation is coming from a positive place, with a willingness to learn, there's no need to pander, kowtow or silence yourself for fear of putting your foot in your mouth. Anyone who has serious interest in honest discourse will understand these are 'minefield' issues, fraught with danger, and be more than happy to elucidate where you may be incorrect in your thinking. Those who are waiting just to 'gotcha' you are not interested in honest discourse.
FOR CONTEXT: I am a white, anglo-salon protestant ethnically, atheist, cis-gendered male.
The system in the US has been extremely favorable to me with low cost public education
leading to 2 Bachelors degrees and no debt. The 1st degree didn't lead to a lucrative career (B of Music Ed). The 2nd (Computer Engineering) did thanks to living near the Silicon Valley for the era of the PC to the WWW. I have always considered myself one of the luckiest people I have ever met. You know what the definition of luck is...
More people need to learn to accept that they carry deep rooted prejudices against groups they are not a member of. It's a very basic coping mechanism and gets drilled into you by mass media, class social systems, etc.
When you get called on it: just acknowledge the possibility you disclosed some degree of bias and say you're sorry and will keep working on it.
Someone is just trying to point out their view of your communication. Just think about the input.
The umbrage of the person that has a pass to navigate all the levels of society but is outraged at anyone thinking they did something wrong just seems like petulance to me.
Stay open to the possibility that you might be contributing to a larger problem in this world.
I know I have racist sensibilities. I'm working on learning where they do real harm and how I might make amends. It doesn't make me a bad person. It just means I grew up in a very racist nation that has a history that never gets taught. The ugliness of racism is buried under layers of denial.
Slowly, we will unravel this rat's nest of privilege and distain and achieve a more perfect world. I won't live to see us do it but I've lived to see great gains made towards of more humane social order.
Thinking about this I also agree with this point.
Amen to that. I volunteer in a youth movement where inclusion is at the heart of what we do. We have children from different backgrounds and ethnicities and teach them inclusive values.
So I'm trying my best and recognise that POC continue to have an extremely hard road due to the ignorance and indifference of the white ruling classes.
I know what is meant by it, but I have no clue why it’s being applied here.
It just feels like it’s being shoe-horned into the situation for no good reason.
It's good that this has prompted introspection in you and many of us, but implicit in this post is the suggestion that all of us share similar biases and that perhaps having had it luckier than many we have no right to be outraged at the insinuation of unavoidable and inherent/latent racism (Sexism/homophobia etc. etc.). Not sure that's a call anybody is in a position to make, without knowing the backgrounds of everyone to whom they refer, or the inner-work they may have consciously undertaken already with regard to these issues.
I'm also not sure I share your positivity of a more humane social order. Certainly, when it comes to the original Tweet that turned this thread, we're not even in the right ball-park. Until i read that Tweet, this was an extremely regrettable incident that involved three famous actors/comedians. Suddenly. I'm apparently stripped of my right to opinion and being commanded to check my privilege (I'm not saying this was you). Segregation, it seems, is alive and well
Ok> @michael_m said:
No offence but if you can’t see why it’s relevant here you obviously don’t understand how it works.
This is the only argument we have yet seen from you regarding this. It sounds like people are genuinely trying to understand. If you truly want to change the course of the conversation, it would be helpful to help others understand instead of just resorting to this easy admonishment.
Seems like the divisive brainwashing is complete. Good job elites. Bravo. Ya filthy bastards.
“No offense but…” Well if that isn’t a prelude to thinly disguised ad hominem I don’t know what is.
Like others I was prepared to have a civilized and reasonable discussion, but this conversation seems to have been well and truly derailed now.
I think you’re being deliberately obtuse, I’ve posted at least one article explaining white privilege in simple terms and if you can’t see how it might play out in a discussion amongst a group of mainly white men discussing a fight/altercation between two black men over one insulting the others wife I’m not sure how to make it any clearer.
You posted an article, but I don't think you've established a link between white privilege and what that has to do with this thread. Perhaps you not being able to make it clear is because there isn't an argument to be made.
My comment is not aimed at you @drez
,but I thought your comment brings up a question:
Why is there an Off-Topic section on an iOS music forum?
IMO, these discussions are better for forums specifically for those discussion purposes (social issues, politics, etc.). I can't help but click on these topics though, it's human nature I think, but I'd rather not see them on this forum, so I'm not tempted to click on them and read them. It like going to the comments section on a news website article - I know what I'm going to find, but sometimes get drawn in to watch the "train wreck"
How do I unsubscribe?
Can you point out any specific instances where you think you have detected white privilege being played out relative to this discussion please.
I don’t think I can make it simpler, if you can’t see it you’re either choosing not too or really don’t grasp what it is.
White men making assumptions and pronunciations about how a black man should behave/respond when his wife is insulted in a public forum.
Also people calling for responses to which behaviour that are more punitive than the responses that have been given to white artists who have committed similar or worse offences.
I understand that is happening and I agree with you that it's wrong but I'm asking if you've noticed that behaviour in this thread?
Yes, go back and read through the comments.
I'm suggesting that the existence of white privilege is not linked, at least in this thread, with the events being discussed. You still haven't successfully made that link. I think if it's as obvious as you think it is then that should be no problem.
Pretend I have zero understanding of the point you are trying to make, and perhaps spell it out for me.
@CRAKROX, I think I understand your point, but not sure how to get around it in the real world. For example, if I were on trial I would want 12 Jews on the jury… if I were a Jewish woman… 12 Jewish women… if I were a black Jewish woman…. Well, you see my point.
If I were a black Jewish woman I don’t think I could find a black Jewish female psychologist. I’m not trying to be cute here. It just seems, in order to have any interaction at all, we have to tacitly expect, whatever the profile of the subject of conversation, that there will always be nuanced limitations from any participant in a conversation. Even a black woman talking about a black man is problematic, no?Certainly those limitations can be addressed and explained point by point. It’s laborious, but what’s the alternative? Silence, I guess.
The problem is that it then extrapolates to bigger issues. Whites helped in the Civil Rights movement, I think. Certainly they could not appreciate the “nuances”… but if they were silent? I guess blacks could have just gone it alone. Would the results have taken longer, been better or worse?
I think this is the root of the disagreement. One person reads through the comments and does see it and the other does see it. Asking the person that doesn’t see it to re read it doesn’t change anything. They just re read it in the same lens they were looking through.
If you could quote a section specifically so that we might understand, that would go a long way toward understanding.
For myself, I feel like I’m being told I did something wrong, but not told what it was. I’ve used the line “you know what you did” on my kids and it does work sometimes, but many times they look at me like “no, I honestly do not know” and so I have to walk through the specific scenario with them and then confirm do you understand now?
Maybe you could give that type of clarification? I genuinely want to understand. That’s one of the major points in discussing an event like this
It's a shame you don't realise how absurd it is for many of us to consider this, in these terms. I'm judging a (Hu)man for his behaviour. His colour/ethnicity/race/age/size/sexuality are of zero consideration.
I'm curious: As a white man, am I allowed to celebrate Will Smith's talents, successes etc?
Nobody is saying people can’t have an opinion nor be an ally to those in need however if you can’t see the potential problem of a mainly all white group discussing and judging the actions of two black men whilst not in the same discussion mentioning or accounting for the cultural differences in the approach to such a problem by the said two black men…