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WTF Will Smith?
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To be honest I haven’t the time or the energy, go back and read through the thread from the beginning.
Or read this…
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/will-smith-chris-rock-slap-situation-is-not-about-you/amp
Or the earlier article I linked.
So I understand, are you saying that the response Will made to slap Chris was because he’s black and that’s the way that he was raised in a black community and that’s ok to do?
And if you think I’m being obtuse, I’m not. I’m trying to decipher your what seem like cryptic answers to me.
EDIT: I’ll read the article and see if it overlays my thoughts.
I read this and it was enlightening, I guess. The problem, I’m thinking, Is that Smith should have taken it outside instead of disrupting what he, most of all, should have realized… that he destroyed the crowning moments of many dedicated professionals (including himself) whose recognition of their accomplishments was stolen by the actions an unconscious person.
Jesus that’s not what I’m saying at all.
I’m not sure why my answers are cryptic it’s a fairly easy thought process to follow.
At this point I'm going to say he's not going to do that because it doesn't exist in this thread. He's just going to keep on saying if you can't see it you're suffering from white privilege.
I think people being super defensive about @CRAKROX point are demonstrating part of the issue of privilege by virtue of the amount offense being taken and the way people defend their right to express their point of view.
The point is not really that white people can’t have opinions or ever discuss situations where people of color are involved. Or that men can never comment on situations that involve women, etc
I think the core point is that white people should think long and hard about getting into or starting a conversation that is centered on the behavior of black people. (And similarly for men commenting on situations about women, etc) And should be open to thinking about whether privilege or bias plays into it....even if one is legitimately free from bias.
It isn’t that one’s point of view is guaranteed to be tainted…but those of us that benefit from privilege, by virtue of that privilege, will sometimes (more often than we would like to admit) have points of view influenced by our privilege. By taking an extra beat to think about it and sometimes deciding not to comment even when we think we have something to say, we can help rebalance power dynamics that are still present in our society.
If one’s response to being questioned about the possibility of privilege is hugely defensive and supported by something like "I don't see color", that person has some listening and learning to do whether their attitude about race (or gender or whatever) played into their perspective in the discussion in question.
"I don't see color" or "race has nothing to with my point of view" (when said on the defensive) is something one would only say if one doesn't understand how privilege works and why privilege is a problem. One would use different thoughts to defend one's position. The defense itself reveals one's attitude about privilege.
Even if you are right about your interest in commenting not being racially/privilege-motivated, that doesn't mean it is unfair to you to be asked to give it some thought.
I honestly feel like feelings of defensiveness and anger when being questioned about one's privilege is an indication that one doesn't get how privilege works or how it affects people that don't have it.
Sometime us white guys might "unfairly" be questioned about our privilege. That "unfairness" is trivial and pales in comparison to the consequential unfairness people without privilege basically constantly experience. The "unfairness" of being questioned about our privilege is reasonable. ALSO we will sometimes be wrong in our assessment of whether our point of view comes out of our privilege.
If we want to undo the system of privilege, we've got to let ourselves be questioned about it and accept that sometimes we don't know when it is at play. we need to realize that if being questioned about privilege feels like an affront, we've got some work to do on ourselves.
Emotional/verbal violence can be as, or more destructive than physical violence.
I read the teen vogue article you posted above and, imo, did not see the wildly deep underpinnings of what that article talks about located in this thread. IMHO, there has been extremely left and right views on what happened, and those views are by people of all races and genders and even political affiliations. I even read where Richard Williams, who Will said was a "fierce defender" of his family as if to justify his actions when he made his acceptance speech, said he does not condone what Smith did.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/29/1089419539/will-smith-richard-williams-chris-rock-slap-oscars
So another black man, who WIll Smith just gushed about in his speech as if to say "King Richard would do the same", does not support Will Smiths actions. Check out what Kareem said:
https://kareem.substack.com/p/will-smith-did-a-bad-bad-thing?s=r
I guess what I'm getting at is: I don't see how people in this thread, be they white/black/other, have reacted any differently than any other people have, regardless of their color because people of different races and genders are all reacting differently. There are black people supporting the same view as white people, and white people supporting the same view as black people. Everybody can't be wrong and all racist just because their view point came from a white person, when that viewpoint is exactly the same as other black people...and all of them happen to be different.
All I can pull out of it is that all of us have different viewpoints of this specific incident, regardless of color, and those different views also are shared by people of different colors.
Anyway, good discussion and glad I read 2 of those articles you linked, but still after reading them, I feel like I've been unbiased in my views and I'm ok with it.
Room 101 seems quite inviting now.
I have zero problem with being asked to think of something differently. That's exactly how you grow as a person.
But saying that "this is what is going on in this thread" is different than saying "have you considered"? I feel like many people in this thread have considered exactly what you are saying after our privilege being questioned, and continued to go down the path of understanding the point of view in this specific instance, which is what the topic is about. For me personally, I did not feel like I was being unfair in my viewpoint, saw both sides and I honestly feel ok with my logic. I also didn't see any other crazy biased view points either, but feel a bit like nope, you have this view because you are white. period.. While insulting to me because I feel like I know my own mind, there's little I can do but try to understand why I'm being viewed as a biased white guy when I feel like I've talked it out, sought understanding, but didn't really get the details of how to make me think in a different way. At this point, I feel like I've done all I can do. And I'm good with that (again, just my own thoughts here, not overlaying them on anybody else).
I very much appreciate everybody's thoughts. I'm learning a lot about things from others in their walks of life and its enriching to me. Even if it isn't about music
The entire discourse centered around privilege is nothing more than a weaponized cultural meme designed to keep people who would otherwise get along fine and exist in harmony, perpetually divided. And egotistical idiots absolutely eat it up and regurgitate it wherever they feel it can be shoehorned into a situation. And the complicit mainstream media obliges them. And at the end of the day ALL OF US lose.
Is it your perception that either CRAKROX or the woman in the original tweet are asking any of us to give the possibility of white privilege some thought? Noting wrong with asking people about this, at all. There is a conversation to be had, here, but it can't happen while people are making such assumptions about others' backgrounds, experience with various isms etc. and whether or not ideas such as white privilege have or not already been considered during the course of life (I can assure you i'm not the only one who has had cause to consider the idea of white privilege before three days ago).
As for defensiveness? I'm gonna go with Occam's Razor i.e that I'm just not too interested in people who know nothing about me all but straight calling me a racist.
No one is immune from racism. The basic act of classifying a person on physical characteristics by "people who know nothing about" that person is where this stain emerges.
People who deny they do this are not thinking it through and are in most cases just insulted
because they believe racism requires a person to adopt a framework of hate. Racism like most human qualities exists on a scale.
If you hear a disembodied voice your mind will generate an image for the voice based upon
clues in that voice. The brain works this way and biases and prejudices are injected into all interactions. This surfaces for gender, race, disabilities, and a whole list of categories.
Being called a racist provokes anger and denial. It's in that list of pejorative fighting words.
I personally believe everyone needs work in this area. The goal of this work is just to insure people are treated equally and not punished for a physical attribute they cannot change.
But really folks the key takeaway from this discussion is this: crack is whack. Don’t do it, just say NO. It’ll rot your brain!
Your post is just another rewording of the same assumptions. It's inescapable and all-inclusive because you declare that "No one is immune from racism", that these supposed "biases and prejudices are injected into all interactions". Then you declare your belief that everyone needs to do work (Again presuming that people haven't already) lest they keep judging in the pejorative, those of different races, cultures, sexes, genders and sexualities.
And maybe this is some projection coming from you. Maybe it's taken this incident to show you that you need to do some work in this area, in which case that's a great thing. Over the course of my life, I've had many such opportunities to face my own prejudices and biases head-on. Not saying I'm on top of it all, or immune to things creeping back, but I'm 'good' with my gut reaction to how this whole incident played out.
Seems there's no better way to confirm oneself a racist than to take offense at being accused of being racist, in a 'thou hath protesteth too much' kinda way. Guess I've no feet with which to keep on digging. Anyone wants to think I'm either a blatant or a latent racist, fill yer boots!
The thing is- we’ve all had the red mist come down at some time. I certainly have - and I have reacted in an unsavoury way. If someone had dissed my wife like that and I had already had a few drinks - I would have been right in there. In fact I have do this in the past, I was half cut - but still able - mouthing off large to some bloke who had been saying disrespectful things about my wife. Eventually I turned around - aware of someone tugging at my shirt from behind… it was my wife?! ….. I wish you would listen she said…. frowning….we were just kids in the playground…….. ah…
I think you've been missing the marriage dynamics on vivid display in the incident. Something that some folks just wont get here, because they aren’t married. Mr Smith laughed at the joke, then his wife gave him the look and then the joke was very suddenly not funny and he was very suddenly outraged. And then he assaulted a fellow married man. Whose wife had to watch this happen.
Im not referencing an essay from The Guardian or any other online publication here. I think people that aren't married can feel free to comment on the incident, but should probably remember that their experiences are different than those of us that are.
I think this is very close, we didn’t get to see what happened when Will was laughing and Jada rolled her eyes, because the camera cut back to Chris, but more than likely something to suggest that, Will shouldn’t have been laughing.
Not missing those at all, just like everything else they play into the multitude of reasons that this incident played out the way it did.
At the end of the day my point is more to do with the hypocrisy of the horror and pearl clutching that’s occurring in discussions such as this one here , considering white Oscar winners have committed similar or worse offences with little to no reaction as I’ve referenced elsewhere in the thread.
I'm very satisfied with place where i live ... there is not that level of police terror / insane law like in US.. no "cancel culture" .. no overload of "multi gender agenda" .. not much "political correctness" ... people are here definitely not offended for absolute nonsenses and are laughing on that "slap event" mostly
) ..
very much like it here, people are here still sane not affected by some nonsenses spreaded in world too much .. For long time i was pissed of becasue of our incompetent politicians, but then i realised that politicians are incompetent everywhere, it's their nature. Except of that, things here are nice
Hey, and from Monday you won’t have to wear masks at Edeka.
I don't have any problem with wearing respirator inside buildings .. i'm doing it for my own protection, i even don't know if it is mandatory or optional :-D And when it was mandatory outside i din't wear it either outside, cause it is just nonsense lol
😷 It makes a nice face-warmer when it’s cold outside.
yeah that's true :-)))
@CRAKROX, as to other incidents, I certainly would have been critical of what John Wayne did. There was just no iOS music back then. Although there was no shortage of hypocrisy. I also am tired of the overused “pearl clutching”. Unless you wear pearls it’s rather misogynistic, don’t you think?
Don’t think it’s a misogynistic term at all, you’re obviously just judging it by your own heteronormative standards if you think that only a woman can wear or clasp pearls ?
I don’t remember any threads calling for Harvey Weinstein to have his Oscars removed on here for example when his crimes were exposed ?
@CRAKROX I said “unless you wear pearls”. You’re right about Weinstein, tho. I also don’t think Smith should lose his Oscar. Fortunately, Weinstein lost everything but his Oscars. Maybe the Academy will do it now that everyone is scrutinizing them.
😂
He didn’t accept those awards right after hitting someone on live television.
Btw,it has been reported that he was asked to leave and refused. Decision by Academy on the 14th. He’s been invited to speak to them beforehand.