Texas 25th May 2022

AlexY

Mental health (which our country refuses to do anything about) is an issue, but guns are definitely a huge part of the problem as well. You have mental health issues in other industrialized countries, but nowhere near the deaths that happen here.

Some people have this really asinine retort about the law not banning knives or what have you. When was the last time a knife attack killed a dozen people in minutes the way a semi automatic one like the AR 15 can?

That kid couldn't buy cigarettes or alcohol, and was just barely legal when it comes to buying a nudie magazine or a lottery ticket, yet he legally bought an AR 15 semi-automatic rifle. <--- something is wrong with this picture.

slicetwo

I'm a middle school teacher. The fact that, at any point, I could get shot AT SCHOOL DEFENDING MY STUDENTS is f*cking ridiculous.

Gravitas

@slicetwo said:
I'm a middle school teacher. The fact that, at any point, I could get shot AT SCHOOL DEFENDING MY STUDENTS is f*cking ridiculous.

Agreed.

AudioGus

@SirMcp said:

@Simon said:
As awful as the high profile, mass school and mall shootings are it is the "normal" gun homicides that are America's biggest gun threat.

The high profile mass shootings get a lot of media attention but they hardly register on the national yearly gun homicide numbers. How many are killed by guns in Detriot or Chicago each week?

The rest of the world finds it difficult to understand why Americans think they need so many guns.

To answer your question 35-40 people in Chicago each and every weekend and this has been going on for years but the MSM doesn’t bring attention to it because it doesn’t fit their narrative.

@Simon said:

@espiegel123 said:
There is a sub-culture here with tremendous political clout with an almost cult-like attachment to firearms who oppose any regulations at all.

Yes, those guys look more like a religion than a sub culture.

I guess that there are a few elements to gun owners:

1. crazy people who commit mass murder (small number of people)
2. sane bad guys who use guns for criminal use (larger number of people)
3. sane law abiding people who, for whatever reason, think they need guns (massive, massive number of people)

I understand 1 and 2, not so sure about what is going on with group 3. But I'm not an American so maybe someone can explain it to me.

Sure, group 3 needs guns to protect themselves from group 1 & 2 and another group, group 4 (authority as a perceived threat). Its very simple math.

The reality of the matter is the past three years have seen the highest sales of fire arms and munitions in the history of the United States. Why? It started during covid and increased when American cities were being burned and looted in peaceful protest, while the idiots that lead us were screaming defund law enforcement which happened in certain cities and crime has risen to historic highs in the last two years which compels Americans to buy more fire arms!

There are seven fire arms for every man, woman and child in America and that was before covid. America has a gun surplus problem that it cant solve. But guns are not the problem. Education is the problem. All of this madness stems from the fact that our society does not educate people to be passive and respectful. Our culture is steeped in violence. Just look at our entertainment. And you wonder why these shooters have no respect for human life, Call Of Duty rewards murder. It's a frustrating situation.

Violence used to be rewarded by simple daily survival. It is in our DNA, with some more than others. Education may help curb this but it is a part of humanity. Yup, frustrating. Who knows, just spitballing here but some people may not fair well in the push button melting pot styled society and would have done better in a small community with higher stakes where daily survival gave more real, tangible, less abstract survival challenges. The quiet dude at the edge of the camp who didn't talk much to others was damn handy when you had to run after and slit a caribou's throat. Everybody loved that guy... back then.

NeuM

No person with a conscience could possibly look on what happened in Texas as anything other than a disaster for the parents and families of those killed. Truly tragic and from what reports are now saying, completely avoidable because there was no armed security guard in place who could've ended this. Someone made up a story about a security guard getting shot and then the rampage ensuing. Instead the deranged psychopath was in the school for an hour while the police did basically nothing.

If there is anything at all positive to note, there are 13,477 middle schools, 2,500 junior high schools and 23,900 secondary schools in the US and absolutely nothing like this has ever happened like this in the vast majority of them.

I'd like to see constitutional carry enacted across the entire US and every public school teacher should be armed and professionally trained to be able to protect their students and their own lives in the very unlikely event they should ever be threatened or put in a situation in which they have no way to escape (which is always the preferred outcome).

Mentally sick and dangerous people are not going away anytime soon and if a criminal wants access to guns, bombs or what have you, they'll get them no matter what well-meaning laws are passed. Look at California, New York, Chicago. All cities with lots of violent crime AND highly restrictive gun laws. Violent and dangerous people don't follow laws. And by the way, the lunatic in Texas had no prior history which would've raised red flags. He also bought his firearms and other equipment legally. The only possible way to have stopped him would have been an armed guard and/or armed and trained teachers at that school.

NeuM

@mrufino1 said:

@Simon said:
As awful as the high profile, mass school and mall shootings are it is the "normal" gun homicides that are America's biggest gun threat.

The high profile mass shootings get a lot of media attention but they hardly register on the national yearly gun homicide numbers. How many are killed by guns in Detriot or Chicago each week?

The rest of the world finds it difficult to understand why Americans think they need so many guns.

This 47 year old, born, raised and still living in NJ, USA, does not any understand why anyone needs a gun.

Then you should ask the President and Congress why they have armed guards, but armed and trained teachers are not standard across the United States. I think parents would place their own kids safety above that of politicians.

AudioGus

@NeuM said:

@mrufino1 said:

@Simon said:
As awful as the high profile, mass school and mall shootings are it is the "normal" gun homicides that are America's biggest gun threat.

The high profile mass shootings get a lot of media attention but they hardly register on the national yearly gun homicide numbers. How many are killed by guns in Detriot or Chicago each week?

The rest of the world finds it difficult to understand why Americans think they need so many guns.

This 47 year old, born, raised and still living in NJ, USA, does not any understand why anyone needs a gun.

Then you should ask the President and Congress why they have armed guards, but armed and trained teachers are not standard across the United States. I think parents would place their own kids safety above that of politicians.

Given the numbers you gave it sounds like the vast majority of kids are safe already without armed teachers.

As for guns, hell yah, coyotes eatin' ma's chickens must be eliminated.

NeuM

@SNystrom said:

That list is truly astounding — and totally disgusting.

I’ve been registered as “no party affiliation” for decades and after the republican non-response to these past two massacres, I will never again vote for a republican until they come to grips with reality and stop sucking the money-grubbing tit of the NRA.

I love my country, but despise our spineless politicians.

Maybe this hasn't been made clear to you, but the right of self-defense for individuals from tyrannical government is why the Second Amendment exists. And it isn't a right that was "given" to people. It is an inalienable right, backed up by our Constitution. It isn't something which exists so it can defend the ability of people to hunt deer or scare off thieves from the back porch with a shotgun blast aimed into the air (that last one is something the inept clown currently occupying the White House actually said).

Would you have politicians confiscate the hundreds of millions of arms in the US? Good luck with that.

NeuM

@SirMcp said:

@Michael_R_Grant said:
I'm hoping that the unbelievably tragic school shooting this week has served to disprove at least one myth that the gun lobby continually uses as an argument against gun control:

'The only way to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun' = utter bullshit that has been COMPLETELY disproven in this case. There were armed security officers at the school who exchanged fire with the gunman and didn't stop him. Then a bunch of armed police chose to argue with anxious, terrified parents for an hour rather than try to break into the classroom and confront the gunman, in an act of unforgivable cowardice.

Unfortunately in Texas the only good man with a gun arrived late. And gun laws will never be reformed because the issue isn’t about gun violence, it’s about money. The three biggest money makers in the the world are drugs, oil and guns. You do the math. The gun lobby doesn’t need arguments when it has boat loads of lovely money.

Yes, there was no armed security guard in place and the local police did nothing while that psychotic kid had full access to the school for an hour.

AlexY

Santa Fe Highschool had armed guards and ten people still died. Meanwhile the UK hasn't had a school massacre on this level since 1996. I guess the price of zero kind of restrictions on how guns are obtained is the blood of children...because 2nd Amendment

NeuM

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@mrufino1 said:

@Simon said:
As awful as the high profile, mass school and mall shootings are it is the "normal" gun homicides that are America's biggest gun threat.

The high profile mass shootings get a lot of media attention but they hardly register on the national yearly gun homicide numbers. How many are killed by guns in Detriot or Chicago each week?

The rest of the world finds it difficult to understand why Americans think they need so many guns.

This 47 year old, born, raised and still living in NJ, USA, does not any understand why anyone needs a gun.

Then you should ask the President and Congress why they have armed guards, but armed and trained teachers are not standard across the United States. I think parents would place their own kids safety above that of politicians.

Given the numbers you gave it sounds like the vast majority of kids are safe already without armed teachers.

As for guns, hell yah, coyotes eatin' ma's chickens must be eliminated.

The kids are safe in nearly every school they attend. But in those few where there are crazy people who do bad things, it seems like a reasonable insurance policy to have (at minimum) an armed guard. At best, every teacher should know how to handle a weapon and be able to respond if needed.

I'll bet the Uyghurs in China would've liked having the chance to defend themselves. I'll bet most Ukrainians would've liked being sufficiently armed to repel Russia. I don't like the vagueness of this term, but self-defense is a "human right". At least in the US, it is backed by the Bill of Rights.

espiegel123

A high percentage of homicides are committed by otherwise law abiding citizens. Having a gun in one’s house is a risk. The notion that more guns will make us safer is part of the cult-of-the-gun. A large percentage of gun homicides are committed by “law abiding” citizens. The gun cult opposes simple measures like requiring training and registration of firearms or laws requiring ammunition and firearms to be stored in secure locations to which children and other untrained people do not have access.

The likelihood of suicide increases with the presence of a gun. People that tell you about the gun violence in Chicago DON’T tell you that most of the guns come from neighboring states with lax gun laws.

AudioGus

@NeuM said:

@SNystrom said:

That list is truly astounding — and totally disgusting.

I’ve been registered as “no party affiliation” for decades and after the republican non-response to these past two massacres, I will never again vote for a republican until they come to grips with reality and stop sucking the money-grubbing tit of the NRA.

I love my country, but despise our spineless politicians.

Maybe this hasn't been made clear to you, but the right of self-defense for individuals from tyrannical government is why the Second Amendment exists. And it isn't a right that was "given" to people. It is an inalienable right, backed up by our Constitution. It isn't something which exists so it can defend the ability of people to hunt deer or scare off thieves from the back porch with a shotgun blast aimed into the air (that last one is something the inept clown currently occupying the White House actually said).

Would you have politicians confiscate the hundreds of millions of arms in the US? Good luck with that.

Tis a sad fact. But yah if we look at the worst atrocities committed in the last century by humans it seems like it was by governments against their own people. So... yah... I don't blame people for taking advantage of the 2nd, particularly when it feels like shit is getting squirrely.

ervin

Guns are the leading cause of death for children and adolescents in the USA. (Not a new thing btw, they have been since 2020 when they took over from traffic accidents.)

Basically, getting your children shot to own the libs.

TFW when you build what is undoubtedly the richest and most powerful country in human history - and make it like this.

NeuM

@ervin said:
Guns are the leading cause of death for children and adolescents in the USA. (Not a new thing btw, they have been since 2020 when they took over from traffic accidents.)

Basically, getting your children shot to own the libs.

TFW when you build what is undoubtedly the richest and most powerful country in human history - and make it like this.

What’s your source for that? And gun control sources are not sources. They’re propaganda. Provide a non-partisan source please.

NeuM

@AlexY said:
Santa Fe Highschool had armed guards and ten people still died. Meanwhile the UK hasn't had a school massacre on this level since 1996. I guess the price of zero kind of restrictions on how guns are obtained is the blood of children...because 2nd Amendment

In the UK, knife and truck attacks are not uncommon. I vividly remember a religious extremist beheading a person in the middle of the street there. Motivated violent and/or crazy people will always look for opportunities to do bad things.

AudioGus

@NeuM said:

@AudioGus said:

@NeuM said:

@mrufino1 said:

@Simon said:
As awful as the high profile, mass school and mall shootings are it is the "normal" gun homicides that are America's biggest gun threat.

The high profile mass shootings get a lot of media attention but they hardly register on the national yearly gun homicide numbers. How many are killed by guns in Detriot or Chicago each week?

The rest of the world finds it difficult to understand why Americans think they need so many guns.

This 47 year old, born, raised and still living in NJ, USA, does not any understand why anyone needs a gun.

Then you should ask the President and Congress why they have armed guards, but armed and trained teachers are not standard across the United States. I think parents would place their own kids safety above that of politicians.

Given the numbers you gave it sounds like the vast majority of kids are safe already without armed teachers.

As for guns, hell yah, coyotes eatin' ma's chickens must be eliminated.

The kids are safe in nearly every school they attend. But in those few where there are crazy people who do bad things, it seems like a reasonable insurance policy to have (at minimum) an armed guard. At best, every teacher should know how to handle a weapon and be able to respond if needed.

I'll bet the Uyghurs in China would've liked having the chance to defend themselves. I'll bet most Ukrainians would've liked being sufficiently armed to repel Russia. I don't like the vagueness of this term, but self-defense is a "human right". At least in the US, it is backed by the Bill of Rights.

Yah the whole 'banks have armed guards / what are your children worth?' argument comes to mind. If there are seven guns per person and kids play murder games for fun... ummm, yah if I had a kid going to school in the states maybe I would want them to be treated as valuable as a cash register. Sure glad I live in a relatively sleepy Canadian town with only a couple gun murders over the past year, one of which was a kid on a basketball court a couple blocks away at my favorite park... gulp.

AlexY

When was the last time someone killed a dozen people with a knife?

purpan2

As a teacher, can I just say that I personally consider the idea of routinely arming teachers to be completely unacceptable, even as a politically motivated gesture. It’s particularly insensitive this week.

NeuM

@AlexY said:
When was the last time someone killed a dozen people with a knife?

More common than you’d care to think.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/asia/china-elementary-school-stabbing-intl-hnk/index.html

https://nypost.com/2019/09/03/knife-wielding-man-kills-8-schoolchildren-in-china/

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/09/world/knife-wielding-man-kills-8-children-at-japanese-school.html

And there are many more of these if you do the minimum of effort and research it. Knife crimes are quite common in China and Japan.

NeuM

…

AudioGus

@purpan2 said:
As a teacher, can I just say that I personally consider the idea of routinely arming teachers to be completely unacceptable, even as a politically motivated gesture. It’s particularly insensitive this week.

Arming teachers sounds like arming every teller at the bank. A bit heavy handed.

NeuM

@purpan2 said:
As a teacher, can I just say that I personally consider the idea of routinely arming teachers to be completely unacceptable, even as a politically motivated gesture. It’s particularly insensitive this week.

As a teacher, would you rather be able to defend yourself and your students or would you prefer the dangerous person attacking have their way? At the Uvalde school the armed guard they had WAS NOT AT HIS POST. What is a teacher supposed to do then? Thinking ahead of the problem is how problems get solved.

CRAKROX

@NeuM said:

@SNystrom said:

That list is truly astounding — and totally disgusting.

I’ve been registered as “no party affiliation” for decades and after the republican non-response to these past two massacres, I will never again vote for a republican until they come to grips with reality and stop sucking the money-grubbing tit of the NRA.

I love my country, but despise our spineless politicians.

Maybe this hasn't been made clear to you, but the right of self-defense for individuals from tyrannical government is why the Second Amendment exists. And it isn't a right that was "given" to people. It is an inalienable right, backed up by our Constitution. It isn't something which exists so it can defend the ability of people to hunt deer or scare off thieves from the back porch with a shotgun blast aimed into the air (that last one is something the inept clown currently occupying the White House actually said).

Would you have politicians confiscate the hundreds of millions of arms in the US? Good luck with that.

Do you really believe that if it came down to the wire and a group of US citizens attempted to oppose the US government with whatever firearms they posses that they would last longer than 5 minutes considering the US government could mobilise one of the biggest and best equipped militaries in the world against them ?

AudioGus

...

CRAKROX

@NeuM said:

@AlexY said:
Santa Fe Highschool had armed guards and ten people still died. Meanwhile the UK hasn't had a school massacre on this level since 1996. I guess the price of zero kind of restrictions on how guns are obtained is the blood of children...because 2nd Amendment

In the UK, knife and truck attacks are not uncommon. I vividly remember a religious extremist beheading a person in the middle of the street there. Motivated violent and/or crazy people will always look for opportunities to do bad things.

They are not common events, you have been watching too much Fox News.

NeuM

@CRAKROX said:

@NeuM said:

@SNystrom said:

That list is truly astounding — and totally disgusting.

I’ve been registered as “no party affiliation” for decades and after the republican non-response to these past two massacres, I will never again vote for a republican until they come to grips with reality and stop sucking the money-grubbing tit of the NRA.

I love my country, but despise our spineless politicians.

Maybe this hasn't been made clear to you, but the right of self-defense for individuals from tyrannical government is why the Second Amendment exists. And it isn't a right that was "given" to people. It is an inalienable right, backed up by our Constitution. It isn't something which exists so it can defend the ability of people to hunt deer or scare off thieves from the back porch with a shotgun blast aimed into the air (that last one is something the inept clown currently occupying the White House actually said).

Would you have politicians confiscate the hundreds of millions of arms in the US? Good luck with that.

Do you really believe that if it came down to the wire and a group of US citizens attempted to oppose the US government with whatever firearms they posses that they would last longer than 5 minutes considering the US government could mobilise one of the biggest and best equipped militaries in the world against them ?

Are you also of the belief that an unarmed mob of rioters almost overthrew the US government on January 6th?

NeuM

@CRAKROX said:

@NeuM said:

@AlexY said:
Santa Fe Highschool had armed guards and ten people still died. Meanwhile the UK hasn't had a school massacre on this level since 1996. I guess the price of zero kind of restrictions on how guns are obtained is the blood of children...because 2nd Amendment

In the UK, knife and truck attacks are not uncommon. I vividly remember a religious extremist beheading a person in the middle of the street there. Motivated violent and/or crazy people will always look for opportunities to do bad things.

They are not common events, you have been watching too much Fox News.

You can do all of the research for yourself. Maybe you’re misinformed because you watch too much CNN or MSNBC.

CRAKROX

@NeuM said:

@CRAKROX said:

@NeuM said:

@SNystrom said:

That list is truly astounding — and totally disgusting.

I’ve been registered as “no party affiliation” for decades and after the republican non-response to these past two massacres, I will never again vote for a republican until they come to grips with reality and stop sucking the money-grubbing tit of the NRA.

I love my country, but despise our spineless politicians.

Maybe this hasn't been made clear to you, but the right of self-defense for individuals from tyrannical government is why the Second Amendment exists. And it isn't a right that was "given" to people. It is an inalienable right, backed up by our Constitution. It isn't something which exists so it can defend the ability of people to hunt deer or scare off thieves from the back porch with a shotgun blast aimed into the air (that last one is something the inept clown currently occupying the White House actually said).

Would you have politicians confiscate the hundreds of millions of arms in the US? Good luck with that.

Do you really believe that if it came down to the wire and a group of US citizens attempted to oppose the US government with whatever firearms they posses that they would last longer than 5 minutes considering the US government could mobilise one of the biggest and best equipped militaries in the world against them ?

Are you also of the belief that an unarmed mob of rioters almost overthrew the US government on January 6th?

That’s not answering the question and I don’t see the relevance but please feel free to answer one and explain the other…

NeuM

@AudioGus said:

@purpan2 said:
As a teacher, can I just say that I personally consider the idea of routinely arming teachers to be completely unacceptable, even as a politically motivated gesture. It’s particularly insensitive this week.

Arming teachers sounds like arming every teller at the bank. A bit heavy handed.

Why shouldn’t tellers be armed and trained? I’ll bet bank robberies would completely disappear if this was the case.