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Texas 25th May 2022

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Comments

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @NeuM said:

    @LinearLineman said:

    I suggest we both bow out so the thread might continue with better purpose. We have both had our say.

    I agree we have both adequately voiced our opinions on the matter of what happened and what should happen regarding school safety.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @NeuM said:

    @maxwellhouser said:
    I feel the argument to arm and fortify schools is mainly a device to deflect the conversation from the actual issue. I’m sure I’m only repeating what’s been said this large thread.

    Mass shootings are not limited to schools.

    The relentless pro-gun, ‘any-regulation-is-bad’ propaganda has done a number on many brains in this country. Combine it with the ‘reject-anything-that-goes-against-your-beliefs’ attitude perfected by Rush Limbaugh and adopted by all the right wing media/politicians and here we are.

    The Second Amendment protects the individual from the predations of government as well as the will of mobs.

    Wrong. Guess again.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @Simon said:

    @AudioGus said:
    I can't help but see the country as a slow motion Titanic sinking into the ocean. People scrambling up the tilting deck thinking 'I'm latched onto this railing for the next twenty years or so... I'm fine, I'm fine...'

    Great post.

    Empires seem to come and go. The British Empire went pretty quickly.

    Could be America's turn.

    And, yes NeuM, I know America is not an actual "Empire" in the traditional sense :smiley:

    That’s the great thing about America. If the “empire” in Washington, D.C. fails to uphold its constitutional bargain with the States, they may choose to disband the government and start over.

  • NeuMNeuM

    …

  • NeuMNeuM

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @maxwellhouser said:
    I feel the argument to arm and fortify schools is mainly a device to deflect the conversation from the actual issue. I’m sure I’m only repeating what’s been said this large thread.

    Mass shootings are not limited to schools.

    The relentless pro-gun, ‘any-regulation-is-bad’ propaganda has done a number on many brains in this country. Combine it with the ‘reject-anything-that-goes-against-your-beliefs’ attitude perfected by Rush Limbaugh and adopted by all the right wing media/politicians and here we are.

    The Second Amendment protects the individual from the predations of government as well as the will of mobs.

    Wrong. Guess again.

    That isn’t even a valid response. That’s a game of “Tag! You’re it!”

  • SimonSimon

    @NeuM said:
    That’s the great thing about America. If the “empire” in Washington, D.C. fails to uphold its constitutional bargain with the States, they may choose to disband the government and start over.

    As Mr. Mannering used to say: I think you're entering the realms of fantasy there, NeuM. :smiley:

  • SimonSimon

    @JeffChasteen said:
    How did Hamilton disprove that uncomfortable truth?
    By dying from gun violence?

    LOL!

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited May 2022

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    That’s the great thing about America. If the “empire” in Washington, D.C. fails to uphold its constitutional bargain with the States, they may choose to disband the government and start over.

    As Mr. Mannering used to say: I think you're entering the realms of fantasy there, NeuM. :smiley:

    I present a statement backed by facts. You respond with facts. That’s how discussions work.

    The US Federal government could be dissolved by consensus of the States.

  • SimonSimon
    edited May 2022

    @NeuM said:
    I present a statement backed by facts. You respond with facts. That’s how discussions work.

    Do you really think the States are going to disband the government and start over?

  • SimonSimon
    edited May 2022

    @NeuM said:
    I present a statement backed by facts. You respond with facts. That’s how discussions work.

    Wrong.

    A discussion is not merely an exchange of facts.

    You can make a point and I can respond with a fact or I could respond with an opinion or some other comment.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    I present a statement backed by facts. You respond with facts. That’s how discussions work.

    Do you really think the States are going to disband the government and start over?

    At the risk of quoting myself: “If the “empire” in Washington, D.C. fails to uphold its constitutional bargain with the States, they may choose to disband the government and start over.”

    Do I think such a thing is imminent? No.

    Is it possible? Absolutely.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    I present a statement backed by facts. You respond with facts. That’s how discussions work.

    Wrong.

    A discussion is not merely an exchange of facts.

    You can make a point and I can respond with a fact or I could respond with an opinion or some other comment.

    You’re wrong.

    See… that’s not a discussion.

  • SimonSimon
    edited May 2022

    @NeuM said:
    You’re wrong.

    See… that’s not a discussion.

    No, you're wrong (see, we are discussing it) :smiley:

    If this is not a discussion, what is it?

  • NeuMNeuM

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    You’re wrong.

    See… that’s not a discussion.

    No, you're wrong (see, we are discussing it) :smiley:

    If it's not a discussion, what is it?

    There’s a Monty Python routine just for this occasion.

  • SimonSimon
    edited May 2022

    @NeuM said:
    There’s a Monty Python routine just for this occasion.

    Yes, I had that skit in mind when I wrote my reply. It's a classic!

    The "Mr. Mannering" reference from my earlier post is from "Dad's Army", another 1970s UK comedy show. You might not know it in the US.

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited May 2022

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    There’s a Monty Python routine just for this occasion.

    Yes, I had that skit in mind when I wrote my reply. It's a classic!

    The "Mr. Mannering" reference from my earlier post is from "Dad's Army", another 1970s UK comedy show. You might not know it in the US.

    I’ve heard of “Dad’s Army” but have not seen it. I take it you recommend it? Maybe I’ll look it up some time.

    Hmm. Turns out they’re all available on YouTube.

  • SimonSimon
    edited May 2022

    @NeuM said:
    I’ve heard of “Dad’s Army” but have not seen it. I take it you recommend it?

    I grew up with it so I have a great fondness for the characters.

    Like most 1970s comedy shows it might seem a bit lame and silly to modern audiences. It is not intellectual, madcap or hip like Python.

    It is really about the gentle and bumbling characters and how they interact with each other. Great cast of British actors having fun with their roles.

    Was very popular in the UK (and Australia) in the 1970s. Repeated to death. So popular they did a radio version (that's a YouTube video of the radio show you had in your post).

    If you want to check it out I'd suggest you watch the original TV episodes - a lot of the gags are visual. 1st season was in black and white, then about 5 or 6 seasons in colour.

    I still laugh at Jones running around in a panic shouting "Don't panic, don't panic!"... :smiley:

  • NeuMNeuM

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    I’ve heard of “Dad’s Army” but have not seen it. I take it you recommend it?

    I grew up with it so I have a great fondness for the characters.

    Like most 1970s comedy shows it might seem a bit lame and silly to modern audiences. It is not intellectual, madcap or hip like Python.

    It is really about the gentle and bumbling characters and how they interact with each other. Great cast of British actors having fun with their roles.

    Was very popular in the UK (and Australia) in the 1970s. Repeated to death. So popular they did a radio version (that's a YouTube video of the radio show you had in your post).

    If you want to check it out I'd suggest you watch the original TV episodes - a lot of the gags are visual. 1st season was in black and white, then about 5 or 6 seasons in colour.

    I still laugh at Jones running around in a panic shouting "Don't panic, don't panic!"... :smiley:

    Sounds like good fun. I'll check it out.

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited May 2022

    @AudioGus said:

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @AlexY said:

    @NeuM said:

    >

    Have you watched video of what happened? A large number of people were never violent during the trespassing. The violence was limited to the aggressive bunch who first broke windows, assaulted guards and knocked down barriers. Those who were further back just walked in, likely unaware of what was going on in front.

    I wonder how one misses riot police trying to hold crowds back and all that chaos while just sauntering in. Sorry, but I don't buy that for a second.

    Strange, but it looked like some were politely walking through like it was a museum tour while others were running around throwing trash on things. These were not your average thinkers.

    Just because it happened doesn’t mean I approve of any of them doing it. All of the people there rioting were breaking the law and should face prosecution… for rioting and for trespassing. And anyone who attacked a guard should face additional assault charges. I don’t know of any who should be charged for insurrection. At no point was an actual insurrection possible.

    If there were nutjobs murdering politicians though, which I assume could have happened, that could have potentially touched off a series of events with others taking advantage of the general chaos / media smokescreen that would have ensued for much longer after the fact. So maybe attempted insurrection. I mean you can attempt to murder someone and be really bad at it and fail.

    I know of no plans to commit murders on that day. I mean, it’s possible, but from all reports the rioters were not armed unless you count flags and sticks.

    Googled and skimmed and no real fact checking on my part. Could be something... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-protest-cases-insight-idUSKBN29J2V8

    But yah that dude chanting Nancy in the hallway like Freddie Krueger was pretty freaky. Wasn't there a gallows outside too? https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2021-01-15/prosecutors-capitol-rioters-intended-to-capture-and-assassinate-elected-officials

    Anyway, probably reached my OT limit.

    Just for the sake of sewing up some loose ends, the Reuters report link which was provided was wrong and the real facts have been proven in court. See here:

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/armed-insurrection-what-weapons-capitol-rioters-carry

    "Five suspects — Christopher Michael Alberts, Lonnie Leroy Coffman, Mark Sami Ibrahim, Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr., and Guy Wesley Reffitt — are charged with possessing firearms. But none are charged with using them during the riot."

    Anyone who can prove how the US government was supposed to be overthrown with a bunch of amateur rioters, I'd love to see and flatten that argument.

  • GravitasGravitas

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    I’ve heard of “Dad’s Army” but have not seen it. I take it you recommend it?

    I grew up with it so I have a great fondness for the characters.

    Like most 1970s comedy shows it might seem a bit lame and silly to modern audiences. It is not intellectual, madcap or hip like Python.

    It is really about the gentle and bumbling characters and how they interact with each other. Great cast of British actors having fun with their roles.

    Was very popular in the UK (and Australia) in the 1970s. Repeated to death. So popular they did a radio version (that's a YouTube video of the radio show you had in your post).

    If you want to check it out I'd suggest you watch the original TV episodes - a lot of the gags are visual. 1st season was in black and white, then about 5 or 6 seasons in colour.

    I still laugh at Jones running around in a panic shouting "Don't panic, don't panic!"... :smiley:

    Now that's a blast from the past.

    I remember watching that on school evenings
    when school teachers weren't asked to carry guns.

    It was a good laugh for sure.

  • palmspalms

    ugh.. I cannot wait to leave this country. What a joke.

    Finally making the move to Canada later this year.

    The geezers quoting their god Charlton Heston "but but GUNS don't kill people..." is just such a sad and tired tired meme. The proof is in the pudding. More guns, more gun deaths. Gun owners (however "safe" and "trained" they claim to be) are the problem. period.

    "ArM thE TeAcHerS!" ahhahahahahahaha. I'm sure my 82 year old second grade teacher would have taken out an 18yo shooter armed to the teeth. Just fucking drop it. You guys have no idea how insane this sounds to anyone other than fellow gun nuts.

    Countries that have less guns have less gun violence. Not complicated unless you want it to be. If you truly believe that more guns = more safety, then you're simply willfully gobbling up the saggy old propaganda of the gun lobbyists. Amazing to me that people still drink this swill.

    Every time I get a chance to leave the US I feel a huge sigh of relief. The fear of getting shot here for no reason whatsoever is all too real.

    I certainly don't trust "good" guys with guns either. The definition of "good" is all too flexible and has been coopted by religious fundamentalists.

    This place is going down the tubes.

    The argument about second amendment being a fundamental right so gun owners can overthrow "the government". LOL! You're talking about the government, which is by and for the people, right? So in short, you're champing at the bit to kill your fellow citizens. Cool.

    good luck fighting the US military with your guns.. haha, sounds like a blast!

  • palmspalms

    imo, the right wing line "if everyone just had a gun..."

    is even less well thought out than the teenage tripper thinking "if everyone would just drop some acid, we'd have world peace!"

  • CRAKROXCRAKROX
    edited May 2022

    “But we need our guns to protect us from the government”

    Hmmm I wonder how that would look, maybe something like -


    Vs.



    Result =

  • NeuMNeuM

    @palms said:
    ugh.. I cannot wait to leave this country. What a joke.

    Finally making the move to Canada later this year.

    The geezers quoting their god Charlton Heston "but but GUNS don't kill people..." is just such a sad and tired tired meme. The proof is in the pudding. More guns, more gun deaths. Gun owners (however "safe" and "trained" they claim to be) are the problem. period.

    "ArM thE TeAcHerS!" ahhahahahahahaha. I'm sure my 82 year old second grade teacher would have taken out an 18yo shooter armed to the teeth. Just fucking drop it. You guys have no idea how insane this sounds to anyone other than fellow gun nuts.

    Countries that have less guns have less gun violence. Not complicated unless you want it to be. If you truly believe that more guns = more safety, then you're simply willfully gobbling up the saggy old propaganda of the gun lobbyists. Amazing to me that people still drink this swill.

    Every time I get a chance to leave the US I feel a huge sigh of relief. The fear of getting shot here for no reason whatsoever is all too real.

    I certainly don't trust "good" guys with guns either. The definition of "good" is all too flexible and has been coopted by religious fundamentalists.

    This place is going down the tubes.

    The argument about second amendment being a fundamental right so gun owners can overthrow "the government". LOL! You're talking about the government, which is by and for the people, right? So in short, you're champing at the bit to kill your fellow citizens. Cool.

    good luck fighting the US military with your guns.. haha, sounds like a blast!

    Have a nice trip!

  • NeuMNeuM

    @palms said:
    imo, the right wing line "if everyone just had a gun..."

    is even less well thought out than the teenage tripper thinking "if everyone would just drop some acid, we'd have world peace!"

    That's not a "right wing line". That's something those on the Left imagine those on the right have said.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @CRAKROX said:
    “But we need our guns to protect us from the government”

    Hmmm I wonder how that would look, maybe something like -

    Vs.

    >

    Result =

    Looks like you have a problem with overweight people. Why?

  • CRAKROXCRAKROX

    @NeuM said:

    @CRAKROX said:
    “But we need our guns to protect us from the government”

    Hmmm I wonder how that would look, maybe something like -

    Vs.

    >

    Result =

    Looks like you have a problem with overweight people. Why?

    I’ve no issue with peoples weight, those were simply the images that Google turned up.
    Sorry there were no twink gun owners for your delectation.

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited May 2022

    @CRAKROX said:

    @NeuM said:

    @CRAKROX said:
    “But we need our guns to protect us from the government”

    Hmmm I wonder how that would look, maybe something like -

    Vs.

    >

    Result =

    Looks like you have a problem with overweight people. Why?

    I’ve no issue with peoples weight, those were simply the images that Google turned up.
    Sorry there were no twink gun owners for your delectation.

    Really? Now you're making disgusting slurs against gay people? Wow.

  • MichaelMichael

    And …scene

This discussion has been closed.

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