My thoughts on Logic Pro 2 weeks post release...

ErrkaPetti

@realdawei said:

@NeuM said:

@realdawei said:
I’m totally in even more than before. Never realized how good sculpture was…never tried it on desktop…but it is a a BEAST

It's really fantastic, isn't it? I wonder why no developer has tried to crib this part of Logic Pro as a standalone AUv3 app?

sculpture alone is worth twice the yearly sub of Logic

Unfortunately the GUI of Sculture is a disaster, but, it sounds tremendous!

HotStrange

@ErrkaPetti said:

@realdawei said:

@NeuM said:

@realdawei said:
I’m totally in even more than before. Never realized how good sculpture was…never tried it on desktop…but it is a a BEAST

It's really fantastic, isn't it? I wonder why no developer has tried to crib this part of Logic Pro as a standalone AUv3 app?

sculpture alone is worth twice the yearly sub of Logic

Unfortunately the GUI of Sculture is a disaster, but, it sounds tremendous!

It’s so bad. Scrolling through 5-6 pages with knobs everywhere. But man it sounds amazing. I’d kill to have a physical modeling AUV3 that good.

realdawei

@ErrkaPetti said:

@realdawei said:

@NeuM said:

@realdawei said:
I’m totally in even more than before. Never realized how good sculpture was…never tried it on desktop…but it is a a BEAST

It's really fantastic, isn't it? I wonder why no developer has tried to crib this part of Logic Pro as a standalone AUv3 app?

sculpture alone is worth twice the yearly sub of Logic

Unfortunately the GUI of Sculture is a disaster, but, it sounds tremendous!

Yeah I’m slowly getting over the lack of visual pizzaz in the instruments UI…but admittedly the controls are very serviceable…just no fun, have to get all the fun from the sound which more than makes up for it.

Simon

5 Things GarageBand Can Do That Logic Pro on iPad CAN'T:

NeuM

@Simon said:
5 Things GarageBand Can Do That Logic Pro on iPad CAN'T:

He makes a good case. LOL.

mjm1138

@HotStrange said:

@ErrkaPetti said:

@realdawei said:

@NeuM said:

@realdawei said:
I’m totally in even more than before. Never realized how good sculpture was…never tried it on desktop…but it is a a BEAST

It's really fantastic, isn't it? I wonder why no developer has tried to crib this part of Logic Pro as a standalone AUv3 app?

sculpture alone is worth twice the yearly sub of Logic

Unfortunately the GUI of Sculture is a disaster, but, it sounds tremendous!

It’s so bad. Scrolling through 5-6 pages with knobs everywhere. But man it sounds amazing. I’d kill to have a physical modeling AUV3 that good.

My (optimistic? naive?) take is that they probably did these clumsy, barebones UIs for the built-in plugins using SwiftUI in order to get the product out the door, and we’ll likely see improvements in future updates. I’m sure there’s a ton of stuff that the Logic product engineering team wanted in the 1.0 product that they had to punt on, so I suspect and hope that the first couple years of updates will be significant. Things like better handling of multi-out plugins and project templates, but also stuff like a real multisampler and real Alchemy. My fingers are crossed.

richardyot

@Simon said:
5 Things GarageBand Can Do That Logic Pro on iPad CAN'T:

Good points! Plus there are far more Alchemy presets in GB compared to Logic.

ervin

@Simon said:
5 Things GarageBand Can Do That Logic Pro on iPad CAN'T:

What a heroic attempt from Patrick @TheGarageBandGuide to extend the shelf life of his chosen channel name!
👊😎👍

As an added bonus, he's also right.

HotStrange

@mjm1138 said:

@HotStrange said:

@ErrkaPetti said:

@realdawei said:

@NeuM said:

@realdawei said:
I’m totally in even more than before. Never realized how good sculpture was…never tried it on desktop…but it is a a BEAST

It's really fantastic, isn't it? I wonder why no developer has tried to crib this part of Logic Pro as a standalone AUv3 app?

sculpture alone is worth twice the yearly sub of Logic

Unfortunately the GUI of Sculture is a disaster, but, it sounds tremendous!

It’s so bad. Scrolling through 5-6 pages with knobs everywhere. But man it sounds amazing. I’d kill to have a physical modeling AUV3 that good.

My (optimistic? naive?) take is that they probably did these clumsy, barebones UIs for the built-in plugins using SwiftUI in order to get the product out the door, and we’ll likely see improvements in future updates. I’m sure there’s a ton of stuff that the Logic product engineering team wanted in the 1.0 product that they had to punt on, so I suspect and hope that the first couple years of updates will be significant. Things like better handling of multi-out plugins and project templates, but also stuff like a real multisampler and real Alchemy. My fingers are crossed.

I agree with you. Hopefully it won’t take too long. If they take too long to add features people want, people will start jumping ship or just going back to C3 i feel like.

ErrkaPetti

@richardyot said:

@Simon said:
5 Things GarageBand Can Do That Logic Pro on iPad CAN'T:

Good points! Plus there are far more Alchemy presets in GB compared to Logic.

I can’t understand Apples choise to cripple iPads presets in both instrument and FX?

Space Designer is most significant, on iPad, 53 presets, on Mac 1085 (!) presets…?

On many Logic tutorials on Mac on YT they often use presets from Space Designer that’s lacking on iPad.

I have begin to move over the most interesting one from Mac to iPad - tedious work…

Samu

@ErrkaPetti said:

I have begin to move over the most interesting one from Mac to iPad - tedious work…

I will just wait for Apple to make them available as 'future downloads' which is bound to happen sooner or later if they want to validate the existence of the monthly subscription thing...

There's a bunch of packs that will NOT transfer properly due iPadOS version missing the plug-ins they rely on...
...I just love all the classic 'Jam Packs' which rely heavily on plug-ins not present in the iPad version (UltraBeat being one of them) and another is the 'legacy sampler'(ie. not ESX24 or it's refreshed Sampler iteration).

...some of the really old sounds rely on the legacy plug-ins that can be shown on the Mac when using option/alt and bringing up the plug-in menu, these will also fail on import to Logic Pro for iPad...

As for the iPad versions of the existing plug-ins I actually enjoy them more than the desktop versions, they are easier on the eyes compared to the eye-strain causing ES2 and Sculpture on the desktop and as I mostly know what I'm looking for the 'section overview' menu gives me quick access to different areas of the plug-in and the numerical entry pad is really nice

Cheers!

ErrkaPetti

@ervin said:

@Simon said:
5 Things GarageBand Can Do That Logic Pro on iPad CAN'T:

What a heroic attempt from Patrick @TheGarageBandGuide to extend the shelf life of his chosen channel name!
👊😎👍

As an added bonus, he's also right.

But, I see an advantage to sort the plugins after the company names - that’s sorts the plugins in folders and that’s great - we all have many different instruments/plugins from the same developing company…
And, it’s easy to use the search field on top of the UI…

ErrkaPetti

@Samu said:

@ErrkaPetti said:

I have begin to move over the most interesting one from Mac to iPad - tedious work…

I will just wait for Apple to make them available as 'future downloads' which is bound to happen sooner or later if they want to validate the existence of the monthly subscription thing...

There's a bunch of packs that will NOT transfer properly due iPadOS version missing the plug-ins they rely on...
...I just love all the classic 'Jam Packs' which rely heavily on plug-ins not present in the iPad version (UltraBeat being one of them) and another is the 'legacy sampler'(ie. not ESX24 or it's refreshed Sampler iteration).

...some of the really old sounds rely on the legacy plug-ins that can be shown on the Mac when using option/alt and bringing up the plug-in menu, these will also fail on import to Logic Pro for iPad...

As for the iPad versions of the existing plug-ins I actually enjoy them more than the desktop versions, they are easier on the eyes compared to the eye-strain causing ES2 and Sculpture on the desktop and as I mostly know what I'm looking for the 'section overview' menu gives me quick access to different areas of the plug-in and the numerical entry pad is really nice

Cheers!

Do you use any legacy plugin on your Mac, and, if yes, which?

I had totally forgotten about the Legacy Collection in Logic for Mac, so, thanks for an reminder!

dendy

@mjm1138 said:

@HotStrange said:

@ErrkaPetti said:

@realdawei said:

@NeuM said:

@realdawei said:
I’m totally in even more than before. Never realized how good sculpture was…never tried it on desktop…but it is a a BEAST

It's really fantastic, isn't it? I wonder why no developer has tried to crib this part of Logic Pro as a standalone AUv3 app?

sculpture alone is worth twice the yearly sub of Logic

Unfortunately the GUI of Sculture is a disaster, but, it sounds tremendous!

It’s so bad. Scrolling through 5-6 pages with knobs everywhere. But man it sounds amazing. I’d kill to have a physical modeling AUV3 that good.

My (optimistic? naive?) take is that they probably did these clumsy, barebones UIs for the built-in plugins using SwiftUI in order to get the product out the door, and we’ll likely see improvements in future updates. I’m sure there’s a ton of stuff that the Logic product engineering team wanted in the 1.0 product that they had to punt on, so I suspect and hope that the first couple years of updates will be significant. Things like better handling of multi-out plugins and project templates, but also stuff like a real multisampler and real Alchemy. My fingers are crossed.

I believe whole Logic UI is made using SwiftUI - all that left/top/bottom/right/f**king eveeywhere animated slided windows abomination screams default SwiftUI view behaviour 💩☠️

If they rebuild stock plugins to something visually usable AND they make all that trilions of slide windows remember their last size and open WITHOUT that damn animation i reconsider giving logic second chance. Until then - no go for me.

Samu

@ErrkaPetti said:

Do you use any legacy plugin on your Mac, and, if yes, which?

UltraBeat for sure! (I really do prefer it over the 'new' Drum Synth engines even though the old UI irks me a bit).

I had totally forgotten about the Legacy Collection in Logic for Mac, so, thanks for an reminder!

The Jam Packs under Legacy use the 'old' sampler and won't transfer properly over to Logic for iPad...
...there's just too many nutty sounds there to ignore

ervin

@ErrkaPetti said:

@ervin said:

@Simon said:
5 Things GarageBand Can Do That Logic Pro on iPad CAN'T:

What a heroic attempt from Patrick @TheGarageBandGuide to extend the shelf life of his chosen channel name!
👊😎👍

As an added bonus, he's also right.

But, I see an advantage to sort the plugins after the company names - that’s sorts the plugins in folders and that’s great

Yeah, except it sorts them into too many folders, often with one plugin in them which is not helping at all, plus you often can't associate the name of the folder/vendor with the name of the plugin you are looking for most of the time, so not so great 👌

And, it’s easy to use the search field on top of the UI…

Yeah, except it doesn't yet have a search function in the most obvious place when you initially want to select a plugin. 👌 So you need to do the "create empty plugin then use replace to find search" which is a clumsy workaround

Then again, each to their own, so YMMV. If you are happy with it as is, more power to you. The lack of plugin search and sorting by company has always frustrated me on Logic Mac, too.

realdawei

i was looking for Legacy Woodwinds couldn’t find it so that when i decided to finally checkout sculpture to see if i could make some “breathy sound”. and whoa….

realdawei

one thing i’m missing is clip nudging…don’t think it’s in there…but used that a lot on desktop to nudge vocalists into the pocket

ErrkaPetti

@realdawei said:
one thing i’m missing is clip nudging…don’t think it’s in there…but used that a lot on desktop to nudge vocalists into the pocket

Do you mean Nudge with two buttons in the UI?
The best way just now is to use the precise input in the Inspector View - very precise placement of an region…

klownshed

@realdawei said:
one thing i’m missing is clip nudging…don’t think it’s in there…but used that a lot on desktop to nudge vocalists into the pocket

You can use the delay parameter to nudge regions by precise amounts. -ve delay brings regions forward. Plus like everything else in the parameter panel it’s non destructive.

ErrkaPetti

@klownshed said:

@realdawei said:
one thing i’m missing is clip nudging…don’t think it’s in there…but used that a lot on desktop to nudge vocalists into the pocket

You can use the delay parameter to nudge regions by precise amounts. -ve delay brings regions forward. Plus like everything else in the parameter panel it’s non destructive.

isn’t easier to use the appropriate input into the Inspector?
There you can nudge a region one tick forward/backward…

klownshed

@ErrkaPetti said:

@klownshed said:

@realdawei said:
one thing i’m missing is clip nudging…don’t think it’s in there…but used that a lot on desktop to nudge vocalists into the pocket

You can use the delay parameter to nudge regions by precise amounts. -ve delay brings regions forward. Plus like everything else in the parameter panel it’s non destructive.

isn’t easier to use the appropriate input into the Inspector?
There you can nudge a region one tick forward/backward…

er, that is exactly what I said! The delay parameter is in the inspector. Just drag up and down on the value to change it or tap it to enter precise amounts. Parameter panel = inspector.

Best way is to have it cycle around the region and drag the parameter until it sounds right.

RajahP

@Samu said:

@ErrkaPetti said:

I have begin to move over the most interesting one from Mac to iPad - tedious work…

I will just wait for Apple to make them available as 'future downloads' which is bound to happen sooner or later if they want to validate the existence of the monthly subscription thing...

There's a bunch of packs that will NOT transfer properly due iPadOS version missing the plug-ins they rely on...
...I just love all the classic 'Jam Packs' which rely heavily on plug-ins not present in the iPad version (UltraBeat being one of them) and another is the 'legacy sampler'(ie. not ESX24 or it's refreshed Sampler iteration).

...some of the really old sounds rely on the legacy plug-ins that can be shown on the Mac when using option/alt and bringing up the plug-in menu, these will also fail on import to Logic Pro for iPad...

As for the iPad versions of the existing plug-ins I actually enjoy them more than the desktop versions, they are easier on the eyes compared to the eye-strain causing ES2 and Sculpture on the desktop and as I mostly know what I'm looking for the 'section overview' menu gives me quick access to different areas of the plug-in and the numerical entry pad is really nice

Cheers!

There is potential for ‘content producers’ here.. So much you can do to the available patterns, loops, drums, etc. already included. Can be a revenue stream for some of the great musicians here on ABF… via the App Store… hopefully..

MrSmileZ

@ErrkaPetti said:

@MrSmileZ said:
Ok I’m a week in…
Logic Pro pros:
1. It’s mobile and much better than garageband
2. Round trip compatibility*
3. The browser
4. New tools to work with, and samplr is back as sample alchemy more or less
5. Sounds great
6. Pencil automation! This is so much of a time saver.
7. User samples possible*
8. Not much latency without an audio interface!
9. Tile are nice…want that on the Mac!
10. Extended quantize from Mac..
11. Midi effects are better graphically here somehow, and all my midi plugs just work YES!
12. I recorded a song using a headphone mic and nobody could tell…that’s just dope!
13. Beat breaker! Need it on Mac please!
14. Play surfaces really come in handy on the road!
15. Feels very groovebox - like!
16. INSPIRING to make music with, more so than on Mac!

Logic Pro cons:
1. It’s going to take a little more time to get around the interface
2. No color changing the interface or different color themes? I could see this being bad for some folks!
3. Importing user patches not straight forward as it should be.
4. Sampler is only a player…and it has no controls at all really? Weird omission.
5. Where’s the rest of Logic pros library, this thing doesn’t have nearly any library with everything installed?
6. I hate the instrument and effect guis in some cases…like for multipressor? Who decided that was how to make it look? Yikes!
7. No notation
8. No channel strips? What the hell already? Hope this is coming…at least I can copy channels I guess…but wow bad move.
9. No full alchemy? What the hell already… package the presets from Logic on Mac up and let me decide what I want.
10. Scales and keys don’t stay locked track by track you have to set each one every time you change a patch.
11. Missing groove template extraction from slices?
12. Going to have to buy fabfilter L2 because toneboosters barricade isn’t near as good…and there is no ozone… yet?
13. I can’t pull up my cpu meter to something I can actually read…it’s teeny and really doesn’t make sense?!
13b. If ButterSynth is eating my entire CPU on a new M2 how was it running at all on my first gen iPad Pro?
14. Sometimes editing is fiddly or stopping on an exact number is not doable…but then there is typing it in step so…yea an extra step.

I need a good cpu meter app? Any recommendations?
Has anyone autosampler any hardware saved it as a MainStage or Logic Pro X patch and successfully ported it over?
Has anyone ported over any sampler, alchemy, or synth patches from Logic Pro x on Mac?

All these things are where I am at one week.
Next week I will update this post.

I already bought the year subscription and erased garageband, cubasis, and Auria pro.
I kept zenbeats (it’s a fantom kinda), Beatmaker 3 for now, and Korg gadget.

No looking back…forward only from here out.

What do you mean with:
“ 8. No channel strips? What the hell already? Hope this is coming…at least I can copy channels I guess…but wow bad move.”?

Isn’t it channel strips in the Mixer View, or, do you mean something else?

I have moved EXS24 Instruments between Mac and my iPad - easy…

I have moved over synth patches from Mac to my iPad (including Alchemy) - easy…

Moved even the missing scripts in Scripter MIDI FX…

Yes you can copy a channel!
Just no channel strip presets (yet)

Week#2 is on now and I am happy to hear that instruments can be easily copied over!!!
Ahhhh TY for verification.

I can now use autosampler to autosample some of my desktop plug in instruments patches for iPad!!!!

MrSmileZ

@cytone said:

10. Scales and keys don’t stay locked track by track you have to set each one every time you change a patch.

The button to change the play surface to keys/chord pads etc has an option at the bottom to lock it.

YES!!!!! Thank you…I did not see/notice that… that’s a step saver!

MrSmileZ

@ErrkaPetti said:

@cytone said:

10. Scales and keys don’t stay locked track by track you have to set each one every time you change a patch.

The button to change the play surface to keys/chord pads etc has an option at the bottom to lock it.

This is a BIG thing with Logic Pro for iPad - you missed some functionalities, but, they are already there, “hidden”!
RTFM is a good phrase, but, a little boring compare to just flip around in Logic as an maniac…

I’m reading the 900 page manual but I wanna drive the car too…lol

MrSmileZ

@R_2 said:

@MrSmileZ said:
I need a good cpu meter app? Any recommendations?

https://techet.net/sysstat/

Thanks!

MrSmileZ

Today I found out how to put fades on regions…hope the inspector window is not the only way…
That’s not ideal…that adds a ton of extra time/work to editing and arranging. (If this is it…it’s not it)

I think the simple interfaces work for some of the plug ins and not others…
I hate the interface for the Multiband compressor, retro synth, compressors, and a few others.
sculpture is a little busy…but I absolutely hate the desktop gui for it…and find this plain one a little better, but still not it.
*as long as it has taken to update the guis on MAC Logic (still not there) I don’t see this fixed immediately.

I find it weird garageband has 5 abilities that Logic Pro doesn’t…hopefully those will be addressed

I thought I was doing something wrong now that alchemy has even less patches than before…smh
I don’t know why Apple is so obsessed with killing alchemy off little by little? So far that seems to be the play.
Did they lose developers from that team? Who knows I guess….let’s just make it into two different things and move on?

I have found comedy in Logic Pro IPad….when you pick the sample player, and it tells you that it sucks basically…lmao
Guess I’ll be using AudioLayer still.

I haven’t used the slide over thing to add samples yet…and from the posts in the forum, I don’t think I will like it either…why not just have it in the new BROWSER they brag on?…weird. ‘It could work, but what if it we added more steps, and made it weird…that way it promotes people using slide over?”

Does anyone else suspect that subscribers are just going to be hit with sound packs as a pacifier? I’m getting a slight feeling this might be the plan…or the added value? Let’s hope features are improved as well? Too early to tell.

Samu

@MrSmileZ said:

Does anyone else suspect that subscribers are just going to be hit with sound packs as a pacifier? I’m getting a slight feeling this might be the plan…or the added value? Let’s hope features are improved as well? Too early to tell.

That would be the 'worst case' scenario...
...I almost expect them to deliver bug-fixes on a somewhat regular basis as well as add new features here and there to bring the core features up to par with the desktop version (This includes Flex Pitch and Transient/Warp Markers etc.).

I've kinda 'accepted' the new ui-style of the synths and the work even though they are nowhere near as slick as they could be.

This is also something I feel will improve over time and I get the feeling that they were 'rushed' to get them out when the marketing team wanted to release it. I would not be 'proud' of them if I was the designer behind the...

For me that 'must have' additions are Files.app integration into the Browser similar to Koala, Sitala as a few examples.
Export of Audio & Midi Events (ie. drag to a location in the Browser).
Audio File-Editor for Audio-Files with normalize destructive trim, fade in/out, set the anchor point etc.
Note Velocity in the automation editor (that's already present on the desktop but somehow missing on the iPad).
Improved Midi Routing (done using internal midi-busses).

But hey, it's not been out even for one month and we've not yet seen an update so we never know what it will include

MrSmileZ

@Samu said:

@MrSmileZ said:

Does anyone else suspect that subscribers are just going to be hit with sound packs as a pacifier? I’m getting a slight feeling this might be the plan…or the added value? Let’s hope features are improved as well? Too early to tell.

That would be the 'worst case' scenario...
...I almost expect them to deliver bug-fixes on a somewhat regular basis as well as add new features here and there to bring the core features up to par with the desktop version (This includes Flex Pitch and Transient/Warp Markers etc.).

I've kinda 'accepted' the new ui-style of the synths and the work even though they are nowhere near as slick as they could be.

This is also something I feel will improve over time and I get the feeling that they were 'rushed' to get them out when the marketing team wanted to release it. I would not be 'proud' of them if I was the designer behind the...

For me that 'must have' additions are Files.app integration into the Browser similar to Koala, Sitala as a few examples.
Export of Audio & Midi Events (ie. drag to a location in the Browser).
Audio File-Editor for Audio-Files with normalize destructive trim, fade in/out, set the anchor point etc.
Note Velocity in the automation editor (that's already present on the desktop but somehow missing on the iPad).
Improved Midi Routing (done using internal midi-busses).

But hey, it's not been out even for one month and we've not yet seen an update so we never know what it will include

I am hopeful…
I already paid for my year.
Yea I can live with a good deal of the new guis…but there are some I dislike highly atm.
I am for all the file features, that would indeed be nice and flexible for everyone!
I work differently than you with samples, I edit samples using ocenaudio on Mac…and export them. I just bought Wavebox, so I will eventually get to using that, just not soon.