Ableton Move

Fruitbat1919 · October 2024

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@cyberheater said:
After some consideration I've decided that I'm not going to buy it. The lack of proper midi in/out ports is baffling and makes it very hard to integrate it into my rig.

Looks good for a portable unit though.

Would love to know some figures on how people use these types of portable music making devices, as in mostly alone, or mostly connected to other devices. Myself I agree that a certain amount and types of i/o ports are essential for many as we like to connect all our devices in many ways. I think it's the generations growing up with Lego lol - we are not happy with one box when we can put two together!

I'm sure it will be a success due to those that use Live, but for myself, the lack of i/o severely limits the devices use.

This is where I’m at. Would love to use this as part of my hardware set up but I would need either analogue or midi clock. I could use link but that means using the iPad or iPhone, in which case I may as well use note instead

Becomes a bit of a puzzle to solve at times. I only have my iPad, Minilogue XD, Circuit Rhythm and an SP404mk2 all hooked up. At the end of this year I'm getting a Circuit Tracks and a SH4d to add to them. Next year possibly a Korg Wavestate Module too. The cabling alone with midi boxes and angled connectors so that I can squeeze it all in is head scratching at times. As for positioning of the units, I use children's wooden blocks held together with blutac lol

Still using your OG Circuit Andy?

No mate, I upgraded. I have both Tracks and Rhythm now. I’m still hunting for something to play longer samples on which Move looks ideal for.
Tracks has a limitation when using the midi connections for me, particularly as I’m also using a Launchkey, the out and thru ports are separate and require a merge if you want to use a controller (LK) to play and record on the Tracks midi tracks which I have aVolca FM2 connected to. Without the merge box you can either play the Volca from the LK using thru port, or sequence it from the Tracks using out port, not both at the same time.
The cabling is also a bit unwieldy as you say.
My full solution to cabling and routing is on the way, hopefully November, a unit from CME (https://www.cme-pro.com/h4midi-wc-usb-host-midi-interface/) which is small footprint with MIDI I/O ports and a USB Host which can support up to 8 usb devices via a hub. It means I will be able to reduce the cabling by using USB and have much more flexible routing.
For now I am using USB hub connected to iPhone and using AUM to do the routing. When using AUM for only midi routing, turn the buffer to its lowest value and the latency is minimal.
I’m looking forwards to getting the CME unit to remove the need for the iPhone.
I’m assuming the usb a port on the move is a usb host so you can plug a usb midi device in directly with no need for a separate host, but this means it would fit into my setup as it has no separate midi so couldn’t even use it as a sound module triggered by midi from one of the circuits. It also means I couldn’t use the move to generate ideas and then record the midi onto circuits either as there is no midi or clock sync.
They are aiming at a portable Ableton for idea capturing, and have done that. It is just a shame that the clock isn’t there at all as it would have opened up so many more uses

Sounds like you have a nice compact setup. Is that (like myself) to keep it as intrusive as possible? I'm hiding my cabling as much for the wife as my ocd lol.

Yep noticed the Circuit needing a merge box on a vid I watched. Was originally going to get an MC707 as that let's you switch the input midi to one of the eight slider channels for control and have two stereo inputs mixed in on two of the sliders. Lots of great features on the MC707, but preferred the hands on of the SH4d and the sequencing simplicity of the Circuits. I'm keeping it simpler by not using a keyboard to play notes on the circuits, just enter them via the pads. I will have to merge midi outputs from the circuits to the SH4d though.

The strangest thing I've had to hook up is some moving bocks pulled by a zip tie so that I can switch on the Minilogue XD without having to move the Circuit, which is covering the rear of it where the on switch is! As I said, children's building blocks and blutac keeps the back row of devices at the height needed. The back row of device being heightened is where I'm going to hide the midi merge box and all the cabling Hell lol.

Made me laugh on one of the Move promo vids where they say it 'plays well with others' - with so much missing i/o ports I don't think so lol. As you say, it's an Ableton Live device for the most part.

Fruitbat1919 · October 2024

@AndyPlankton just to add the SP404mk2 is nice and compact, has great sampling time and many other uses. Way better for crafting a sample than the Circuit Rhythm (which I have) and has some wonderful fx and works well as an audio and midi hub for an iPad or iPhone.

dendy · October 2024

Ok, watched Ricky Tines and Surco streams, and it's confirmed - in Drum track, you can use individual envelope / filter / effects PER PAD .. which is game changer cause (in comnination with chrommatic playback per pad) you can use basically 64 tracks split to 4 groups ..

So i am really changing my opinion about this device, it's pretty powerfull, you can definitely do full tracks with it with that number of tracks available.

around 25:50 he is talking about it

[Deleted User] · October 2024

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oldsynthguy · October 2024

@mistercharlie said:
move.local/ isn’t a website. It’s connecting to a web server inside the Move itself. That’s what the .local part means. It’s on your local network. You do not need an internet connection.

Yes sorry @SpookyZoo my mistake, I thought it was a standard web address. Glad you got it sorted.

@dendy said:
Ok, watched Ricky Tines and Surco streams, and it's confirmed - in Drum track, you can use individual envelope / filter / effects PER PAD .. which is game changer cause (in comnination with chrommatic playback per pad) you can use basically 64 tracks split to 4 groups ..

So i am really changing my opinion about this device, it's pretty powerfull, you can definitely do full tracks with it with that number of tracks available.

You can, but it’s never going to be as flexible or useful for editing when transferred to desktop, as a dedicated synth or Simpler track. For me, that’s the whole point of the device - full integration with the Live desktop workflow, rather than compromised workarounds with chunks of Koala-style audio.

Don’t get me wrong these look like loads of fun, and you can do serious stuff on them. If someone bought me one I’d have a great time with it. But Note offers better Live integration for a fiver, and the new Launchkeys make better controllers for a quarter of the Move price. I just find it hard to justify spending £400 of my own money on a Move.

dendy · October 2024

@oldsynthguy said:
You can, but it’s never going to be as flexible or useful for editing when transferred to desktop, as a dedicated synth or Simpler track. For me, that’s the whole point of the device - full integration with the Live desktop workflow, rather than compromised workarounds with chunks of Koala-style audio.

I don't care much about desktop, didn't touched computer for music making probably since 2010 :-D

I found it pretty flexible in HW world, because what this is, is basically 4 group tracks, and 16 independent track inside each one :-) so as standalone HW groovebox i found it pretty good concept

dendy · October 2024

@Danny_Mammy said:
it's a drum rack using the drum sampler not simpler with 16 pads so 16 tracks of monophonic sample playback on the 1 track (64 monophonic pad playback if you use all 4 tracks). you can't scroll up 64 pads on the 1 drum rack like in live to my understanding.

The effects are the drum sampler filter/env/effects per pad and then 2 send effects for the drum rack.

Hm.. so delay/reverb is just global per entire drum rack ? You can't have independent delay/reverb per pad ?

[Deleted User] · October 2024

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oldsynthguy · October 2024

@dendy said:

@oldsynthguy said:
You can, but it’s never going to be as flexible or useful for editing when transferred to desktop, as a dedicated synth or Simpler track. For me, that’s the whole point of the device - full integration with the Live desktop workflow, rather than compromised workarounds with chunks of Koala-style audio.

I don't care much about desktop, didn't touched computer for music making probably since 2010 :-D

I found it pretty flexible in HW world, because what this is, is basically 4 group tracks, and 16 independent track inside each one :-) so as standalone HW groovebox i found it pretty good concept

Oh definitely. If I didn’t have to tick all these boxes for my desktop integration and control requirements, I’d get one!

dendy · October 2024

@Danny_Mammy said:

@dendy said:

@Danny_Mammy said:
it's a drum rack using the drum sampler not simpler with 16 pads so 16 tracks of monophonic sample playback on the 1 track (64 monophonic pad playback if you use all 4 tracks). you can't scroll up 64 pads on the 1 drum rack like in live to my understanding.

The effects are the drum sampler filter/env/effects per pad and then 2 send effects for the drum rack.

Hm.. so delay/reverb is just global per entire drum rack ? You can't have independent delay/reverb per pad ?

so i don't have move but checking on Note and looking at the data.

drum sampler has independent filter/Env and the special drum rack effects per pad

drum sampler reverb (padfx) is like a send to all 16 pads

then you have the 2 send effects on drum rack

you can make you own drum rack presets in Live so maybe there is more hacks to change effects or in the future.

oh 2 sends .. that sounds like it is one type of reverb / delay per entire drum rack but then you can set different send amount for every pad which kinda makes sense (you do not want reverb on kick drum, bu you may want some reverb on snare and so on)

I am starting to like this box.. really doesn't look that limited like it did look at beginning .. need dig a bit deeper, eventually waiting for Loopop review, but maybe will buy this toy :-) feels like something which can spark some inspiration ..

[Deleted User] · October 2024

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oldsynthguy · October 2024

@Danny_Mammy said:

@dendy said:

@Danny_Mammy said:

@dendy said:

@Danny_Mammy said:
it's a drum rack using the drum sampler not simpler with 16 pads so 16 tracks of monophonic sample playback on the 1 track (64 monophonic pad playback if you use all 4 tracks). you can't scroll up 64 pads on the 1 drum rack like in live to my understanding.

The effects are the drum sampler filter/env/effects per pad and then 2 send effects for the drum rack.

Hm.. so delay/reverb is just global per entire drum rack ? You can't have independent delay/reverb per pad ?

so i don't have move but checking on Note and looking at the data.

drum sampler has independent filter/Env and the special drum rack effects per pad

drum sampler reverb (padfx) is like a send to all 16 pads

then you have the 2 send effects on drum rack

you can make you own drum rack presets in Live so maybe there is more hacks to change effects or in the future.

oh 2 sends .. that sounds like it is one type of reverb / delay per entire drum rack but then you can set different send amount for every pad which kinda makes sense (you do not want reverb on kick drum, bu you may want some reverb on snare and so on)

I am starting to like this box.. really doesn't look that limited like it did look at beginning .. need dig a bit deeper, eventually waiting for Loopop review, but maybe will buy this toy :-) feels like something which can spark some inspiration ..

an option is to buy note for 7 euro and link a midi controller to the note macros and test drive it.
although note does miss this 16-pitch thingy, note indeed misses one option at the moment.

Yeah I noticed Note doesn't have that, though the 8 tracks covers my needs for a 'quick' sketchpad. The new Launchkey's might make a decent iPad controller too.

Looks like I can get £50 discount on a v12 Live Suite upgrade if I buy Move, which has just made that one tempting again. Damn.

[Deleted User] · October 2024

The user and all related content has been deleted.

AndyPlankton · October 2024

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@cyberheater said:
After some consideration I've decided that I'm not going to buy it. The lack of proper midi in/out ports is baffling and makes it very hard to integrate it into my rig.

Looks good for a portable unit though.

Would love to know some figures on how people use these types of portable music making devices, as in mostly alone, or mostly connected to other devices. Myself I agree that a certain amount and types of i/o ports are essential for many as we like to connect all our devices in many ways. I think it's the generations growing up with Lego lol - we are not happy with one box when we can put two together!

I'm sure it will be a success due to those that use Live, but for myself, the lack of i/o severely limits the devices use.

This is where I’m at. Would love to use this as part of my hardware set up but I would need either analogue or midi clock. I could use link but that means using the iPad or iPhone, in which case I may as well use note instead

Becomes a bit of a puzzle to solve at times. I only have my iPad, Minilogue XD, Circuit Rhythm and an SP404mk2 all hooked up. At the end of this year I'm getting a Circuit Tracks and a SH4d to add to them. Next year possibly a Korg Wavestate Module too. The cabling alone with midi boxes and angled connectors so that I can squeeze it all in is head scratching at times. As for positioning of the units, I use children's wooden blocks held together with blutac lol

Still using your OG Circuit Andy?

No mate, I upgraded. I have both Tracks and Rhythm now. I’m still hunting for something to play longer samples on which Move looks ideal for.
Tracks has a limitation when using the midi connections for me, particularly as I’m also using a Launchkey, the out and thru ports are separate and require a merge if you want to use a controller (LK) to play and record on the Tracks midi tracks which I have aVolca FM2 connected to. Without the merge box you can either play the Volca from the LK using thru port, or sequence it from the Tracks using out port, not both at the same time.
The cabling is also a bit unwieldy as you say.
My full solution to cabling and routing is on the way, hopefully November, a unit from CME (https://www.cme-pro.com/h4midi-wc-usb-host-midi-interface/) which is small footprint with MIDI I/O ports and a USB Host which can support up to 8 usb devices via a hub. It means I will be able to reduce the cabling by using USB and have much more flexible routing.
For now I am using USB hub connected to iPhone and using AUM to do the routing. When using AUM for only midi routing, turn the buffer to its lowest value and the latency is minimal.
I’m looking forwards to getting the CME unit to remove the need for the iPhone.
I’m assuming the usb a port on the move is a usb host so you can plug a usb midi device in directly with no need for a separate host, but this means it would fit into my setup as it has no separate midi so couldn’t even use it as a sound module triggered by midi from one of the circuits. It also means I couldn’t use the move to generate ideas and then record the midi onto circuits either as there is no midi or clock sync.
They are aiming at a portable Ableton for idea capturing, and have done that. It is just a shame that the clock isn’t there at all as it would have opened up so many more uses

Sounds like you have a nice compact setup. Is that (like myself) to keep it as intrusive as possible? I'm hiding my cabling as much for the wife as my ocd lol.

Yes, and to be unobtrusive I need it 'moveable' as I don't have a desk, it sits atop a home made rack which houses Audio Interface, a Drum module, Korg MIDI module and my guitar processor, and I remove the top and place it in front of me on either a keybord stand (when using bass station and mininova, or a drum stool when using the Volca and or TD3. I'm trying to get as little set-up time involved otherwiase I just don't bother LOL
I've considered trading the whole lot for Push, MPC or Maschine but I'm just feeling those units.

Yep noticed the Circuit needing a merge box on a vid I watched. Was originally going to get an MC707 as that let's you switch the input midi to one of the eight slider channels for control and have two stereo inputs mixed in on two of the sliders. Lots of great features on the MC707, but preferred the hands on of the SH4d and the sequencing simplicity of the Circuits. I'm keeping it simpler by not using a keyboard to play notes on the circuits, just enter them via the pads. I will have to merge midi outputs from the circuits to the SH4d though.

You'll need a good quality merge box, I have a MIDIMAN one and it constantly crashes, I'm not 100% sure but I think the 2 circuits merged output results in a lot of CC traffic especially when switching patches. Novation said they have used Kenton and DoReMi devices without issues.

The strangest thing I've had to hook up is some moving bocks pulled by a zip tie so that I can switch on the Minilogue XD without having to move the Circuit, which is covering the rear of it where the on switch is! As I said, children's building blocks and blutac keeps the back row of devices at the height needed. The back row of device being heightened is where I'm going to hide the midi merge box and all the cabling Hell lol.

Haha, love the creative thinking with the moveable box

Made me laugh on one of the Move promo vids where they say it 'plays well with others' - with so much missing i/o ports I don't think so lol. As you say, it's an Ableton Live device for the most part.

AndyPlankton · October 2024

@Fruitbat1919 said:
@AndyPlankton just to add the SP404mk2 is nice and compact, has great sampling time and many other uses. Way better for crafting a sample than the Circuit Rhythm (which I have) and has some wonderful fx and works well as an audio and midi hub for an iPad or iPhone.

I've always overlooked these, I have been put off by the 'calculator' vibe I get with the look of them. I'll definitley be checking these out in a bit more detail now though

Fruitbat1919 · October 2024

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
@AndyPlankton just to add the SP404mk2 is nice and compact, has great sampling time and many other uses. Way better for crafting a sample than the Circuit Rhythm (which I have) and has some wonderful fx and works well as an audio and midi hub for an iPad or iPhone.

I've always overlooked these, I have been put off by the 'calculator' vibe I get with the look of them. I'll definitley be checking these out in a bit more detail now though

If I was in your situation of having to set up each time, I would trade it all in and use an MPC X se with a controller keyboard instead lol. Problem is that's an expensive one off outlay and a bit all eggs in one basket.

Thanks for the advice on the midi merge. Might make me rethink that to be honest - just not sure. I've been changing my mind so much that when I get close to getting the money together, Jo finds something new like a new bivvy for camping holidays lol. I've promised myself I'm definitely getting something end of this year lol

purpan2 · October 2024

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
@AndyPlankton just to add the SP404mk2 is nice and compact, has great sampling time and many other uses. Way better for crafting a sample than the Circuit Rhythm (which I have) and has some wonderful fx and works well as an audio and midi hub for an iPad or iPhone.

I've always overlooked these, I have been put off by the 'calculator' vibe I get with the look of them. I'll definitley be checking these out in a bit more detail now though

If I was in your situation of having to set up each time, I would trade it all in and use an MPC X se with a controller keyboard instead lol. Problem is that's an expensive one off outlay and a bit all eggs in one basket.

Thanks for the advice on the midi merge. Might make me rethink that to be honest - just not sure. I've been changing my mind so much that when I get close to getting the money together, Jo finds something new like a new bivvy for camping holidays lol. I've promised myself I'm definitely getting something end of this year lol

Just don’t get Jo started on hammock camping. All your money will be gone. 😂

Fruitbat1919 · October 2024

@purpan2 said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
@AndyPlankton just to add the SP404mk2 is nice and compact, has great sampling time and many other uses. Way better for crafting a sample than the Circuit Rhythm (which I have) and has some wonderful fx and works well as an audio and midi hub for an iPad or iPhone.

I've always overlooked these, I have been put off by the 'calculator' vibe I get with the look of them. I'll definitley be checking these out in a bit more detail now though

If I was in your situation of having to set up each time, I would trade it all in and use an MPC X se with a controller keyboard instead lol. Problem is that's an expensive one off outlay and a bit all eggs in one basket.

Thanks for the advice on the midi merge. Might make me rethink that to be honest - just not sure. I've been changing my mind so much that when I get close to getting the money together, Jo finds something new like a new bivvy for camping holidays lol. I've promised myself I'm definitely getting something end of this year lol

Just don’t get Jo started on hammock camping. All your money will be gone. 😂

Is that where you camp on a hammock over deathly high places? Yeah not happening lol

jrjulius · October 2024

@Tarekith said:
Having a dedicated undo button is definitely another thing I like about Move a lot. Wish more gear had that!

Not only that, but it TELLS you what you’ve just undone or redone. Really great use of Live 12.1’s new Undo History!

tput73 · October 2024

I thought the gas had passed now I feel something building.
Anybody know this…
Can Move sync to Midi clock through usb A - to start transport and maintain tempo or only LINK?
What about pitch bend on move synths when another midi device is connected to control move.
(In my case if I can control wavetable and drift with a connected Linnstrument in a meaningful way move would be worth it easy)

Damn gas!

oldsynthguy · October 2024

This video pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Move, including a comparison between Move functionality and the £100 new Launchkey.

Saying that, the £50 off a Live 12 upgrade + Move deal makes it a £350 purchase, which is almost tempting.

SpookyZoo · October 2024

@tput73 said:
I thought the gas had passed now I feel something building.
Anybody know this…
Can Move sync to Midi clock through usb A - to start transport and maintain tempo or only LINK?
What about pitch bend on move synths when another midi device is connected to control move.
(In my case if I can control wavetable and drift with a connected Linnstrument in a meaningful way move would be worth it easy)

Damn gas!

Nope to both I'm afraid.

Link in only
No Pitch bend support

Wish I had better news for you.

AndyPlankton · October 2024

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
@AndyPlankton just to add the SP404mk2 is nice and compact, has great sampling time and many other uses. Way better for crafting a sample than the Circuit Rhythm (which I have) and has some wonderful fx and works well as an audio and midi hub for an iPad or iPhone.

I've always overlooked these, I have been put off by the 'calculator' vibe I get with the look of them. I'll definitley be checking these out in a bit more detail now though

If I was in your situation of having to set up each time, I would trade it all in and use an MPC X se with a controller keyboard instead lol. Problem is that's an expensive one off outlay and a bit all eggs in one basket.

Thanks for the advice on the midi merge. Might make me rethink that to be honest - just not sure. I've been changing my mind so much

The alternative to using a MIDI merge is to use USB instead, hence my purchase of the CME USB Host device. The other advantage to this is less cables as you don't need the MIDI cables and any MIDI re-routing can be done in software so no need for accessing the back of the units and pulling cables

Fruitbat1919 · October 2024

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
@AndyPlankton just to add the SP404mk2 is nice and compact, has great sampling time and many other uses. Way better for crafting a sample than the Circuit Rhythm (which I have) and has some wonderful fx and works well as an audio and midi hub for an iPad or iPhone.

I've always overlooked these, I have been put off by the 'calculator' vibe I get with the look of them. I'll definitley be checking these out in a bit more detail now though

If I was in your situation of having to set up each time, I would trade it all in and use an MPC X se with a controller keyboard instead lol. Problem is that's an expensive one off outlay and a bit all eggs in one basket.

Thanks for the advice on the midi merge. Might make me rethink that to be honest - just not sure. I've been changing my mind so much

The alternative to using a MIDI merge is to use USB instead, hence my purchase of the CME USB Host device. The other advantage to this is less cables as you don't need the MIDI cables and any MIDI re-routing can be done in software so no need for accessing the back of the units and pulling cables

Does this necessitate the need for a computer? Beyond an iPad or iPhone of course.

mistercharlie · October 2024

@tput73 said:
I thought the gas had passed now I feel something building.
Anybody know this…
Can Move sync to Midi clock through usb A - to start transport and maintain tempo or only LINK?
What about pitch bend on move synths when another midi device is connected to control move.
(In my case if I can control wavetable and drift with a connected Linnstrument in a meaningful way move would be worth it easy)

Damn gas!

The Move will send midi clock but not receive it.

oldsynthguy · October 2024

@yellow_eyez said:
It’s 100 less in Europe ? Lucky. If it was $350 here I would’ve already checked out I think. The fact that it is more like $500 after tax has slowed me completely from my op-z trade in…

It’s £400 here in the UK, but if I upgrade my V11 Suite to V12 suite at the same time, they knock £50 off the upgrade price, kinda making it a £350 Move deal, plus a V12 upgrade I’m going to have to do at some point anyway.

I’m backwards and forwards like mad on this though, between a Launchkey mk4 + Live upgrade, or the Move + V12 upgrade deal.

I’m tempted to just hang fire for now, and see what the Black Friday sales offer (if anything).

SpookyZoo · October 2024

...

SpookyZoo · October 2024

@jrjulius said:

@Tarekith said:
Having a dedicated undo button is definitely another thing I like about Move a lot. Wish more gear had that!

Not only that, but it TELLS you what you’ve just undone or redone. Really great use of Live 12.1’s new Undo History!

Yeah. The UNDO button is very useful!

oldsynthguy · October 2024

@yellow_eyez said:
I will say this @oldsynthguy , i think its a great deal if your an Ableton user; and if it was a move controller with 1:1 sw/hw i would def trade my opz for the move…..Note/ableton have a cool little thing going on

It’s very tempting, and V12 has a lot of new MIDI editing features I’d use.

It’d be about £529 for the Move and upgrade.

The Move though is quite basic in comparison to the new Launchkey’s as a Live controller, and I’ve seen mention of noises and buzzing when the Move is in controller mode. That’s a definite turn-off for me if it’s a general issue.

Ideally I’d get both - Launchkey Mini as a controller, and Move as a sketchpad.

Basically I need to stay on this fence for a while longer!

@yellow_eyez said:
At the very least this made me like the note app a lot.

Yes me too. Never thought I’d be into the new ‘capture’ mode, but really digging it in the new version of Note.

drez · October 2024

All this talk about upgrades for ableton are the exact reason for the move. Ableton's master plan is working well!

Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

Ableton Move

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